Noah Samsen Breaks Silence on Lawsuit

0:01Uh hello everyone and welcome back to the first ever episode of the handsome contest. This week we've all been looks maxing to get ready for this and we've

0:09brought on our first opponent of me and Isaac, which is Noah Samson. Uh he's he may mo us. He's just told us he's taller than us, but it should be an exciting episode. So yeah, welcome Noah.

0:21Welcome. Thank you for having me. Thanks for coming.

0:24This is You guys are my two favorite YouTubers. So, um,

0:28dude, likewise. I've been watching you honestly.

0:30I've been watching you since I was a fetus, dude.

0:33I [clears throat] came out of the womb a Noah Samson fan.

0:36That's that that's how it should be for everyone. Honestly, [laughter]

0:42I don't know. I've always been a big fan of some of your opponents. Ethan Klein,

0:46Think Before You Sleep, they're winning me over. You know, as I've gotten older,

0:50I've started to like a lot of other people these days. my cho my tastes are expanding and refining for enter pure entertainment value all

0:58of the people I've ever made videos on I'll I'll pop into their videos and watch them and just be like wow this is fun like this is [laughter] it's so

1:05amazing how different the hum how you know uh diverse the human race is and the way our minds work and the things we

1:12think are important you are the perfect embodiment of judge me by my enemies I've never seen such a a perfect embodiment of that statement

1:20before Yeah. Yeah. I guess from day one arguing with like they're always outed as like

1:27weird sex criminals or like some kind of weird Nazis, Zionist, pedophiles. It's like a good it's a good mix. A lot of times overlap between those things. So,

1:38um you do good work.

1:39Yeah. But I mean it's great to have you guys on the same on the same team kind of.

Chapter 2: Noah’s Evolution from Anti-Redpill Content

1:43Were you big on the Tate stuff when that was happening in what 2021? Yeah, I did a lot of anti- Redpill,

1:51anti- uh like Manosphere kind of content. I didn't really talk about Tate that much. And I guess it never hit my

1:58radar because it was so comically even though the people I talk about would be comically like, should women vote? I don't know. Probably not. [laughter] No,

2:06women shouldn't vote. They'd say stuff like that like legitimately. And you can't really do that and be taken seriously other than like in a very

2:14specific online context where like you know 10 yearear-olds are watching and being like there may be cooking. But with Andrew Tate it's like legitimate

2:21like sex trafficker sex criminal that also he's just comically evil. And I think yeah I I pretty much I was like that seems like a given. other people

2:30were covering it enough. But yeah, under that same vein, I talk about like Fresh and Fit and um Sneo was I don't know if

2:37you guys know familiar with Sneo, but he was kind of riding that wave at the time. I remember he made a channel um a

2:45YouTube channel that he was started doing Red Pill content on. And within like 3 months, I think it it made 500,000 subscribers just doing daily

2:53like let's react to street interviews where they ask women how many people they've slept with in their life and then go ah like over and over again for

3:0212 minutes into a GoPro, you know, and it and it worked. Quite amazing to see.

3:07Yeah, totally. I feel like it's died down in recent um times. It feels like the conversation has Yeah. Woke back is on the is on the come up.

3:19Woke is back and like honestly Israel has just made it so that no I mean people like that was my personal journey where I was like okay all the stuff this

3:27like anti- red pill or this red pill stuff is like it's you know harmful. These ideas are pretty regressive.

3:33They're pretty like a lot of it is kind of comically, you know, just cartoonishly misogynistic to the point

3:40where the only people believing this will grow out of it in time. I remember FD Signifier, if you're familiar with him, he's covered a lot of the manos

3:48manosphere stuff and it and they found that like upon interviewing a lot of these viewers of the manosphere, all of them or very many of them just grew out

3:57of it. They just got a couple years older, had a couple experiences in life,

4:00and then stopped watching it. And so that that kind of juxtapose that like rhetorical or content type of um you

4:09know an outlet of systemic oppression against women in the form of content versus very very material violence from

4:17something like a genocide. That's what kind of ended up changing my I guess it's a part of what changed my like uh trajectory because I was like it's not

4:26that this is like that this should be a content that goes unchallenged but for me it it seems there are far more

4:33pressing issues and um and yeah I I feel like the the political space has somewhat reflected that um with

4:41right-wing influencers kind of jumping on anti-Israel stuff to be anti-semitic or um I mean except I bread tube like left leaning YouTube for the most part.

4:52There's a couple people that have been consistent, but everybody else has kind of still um been disappointed doing like the big ones at least, at least

5:00personally, I've been pretty disappointed. And I um you know, I enjoy a lot of their content as well. Not to like you know name names and start drama

5:08but it is disappointing to see that um you know people who have you know a history of pointing out um Nazism all

5:17over the internet or anti-semitism all over the internet are incapable of doing the same toward the current strand of

5:25you know racial supremacy that we're seeing um take root and well not even take root be prominent for decades in

5:31Israel. It's just interesting to see how they don't have any smoke for that, but they have all the smoke in the world for a problem. Anti-semitism, Nazism that

5:41for the most part is unacceptable in the upper echelons of like Western political society and and um institutions.

5:49Yeah, I mean definitely I think it is incredibly disappointing. Palestine's always been a bit of a litmus test for uh I think that's what Steven Catera

5:57wrote in like 2021. He's like, he said it was always been a litmus test for people who are serious about leftwing politics or not because there are so many people who would kind of find

6:06sympathies for Israel on it who would be like well you know you've got to take into account Israeli society's feelings

6:13when there there's a great quote in one of Patrick Wil's essays settler colonialism uh I can't remember which of

6:22the logic of elimination it's like he he says Gaza and the West Bank as Palestinians become more expendable will either end up like the Banttoanss

6:31if they are less expendable or it will end up like the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza has ended up like the Warsaw ghetto in the sense that the Nazis couldn't beat

6:40Jewish resistance in the Warsaw ghetto and so what did they do they burnt the whole thing down and they've not been able to break the spirit of Palestinians in Gaza at all and to this day and you

6:49know right now it's literally like another facet of that genocide not allowing tents in and people are dying because of storms it's

6:58pretty evident that he was right and that, you know, all of these warnings from serious like leftwing polit political content creators and left-wingers should have been heeded.

7:08But unfortunately for some not willing to put stick their head up. They're not willing to lose the power that they have

7:14around democratic or more like official politics in America.

7:20Yeah. And the fear of I I think a lot of it is just this like fear of being framed as anti-Semitic. like still two

7:26years in not knowing enough about this or not caring to know or look into it enough about this to say you can stand on it and be anti-Israel and if people

7:35are accusing of anti-semitism you can disregard that and you should disregard that so that you can be an example for what other people should do when they

7:43criticize Israel or when they talk about Israel and get that accusation by being silent you are just perpetuating that system and it yeah it is just a general

7:51dehumanization where the hypothetical online victim of like an anti-semitic tweet is worth making, you know, hours

8:00long video essays about versus 50,000 kids being blown up by a Nazi state. Um,

8:07that's, you know, I can stay silent on that. I can repost a couple stories. I can I can just step back. Um, I've never

8:15been the type to say like if you're not talking about this, then you are complicit or if you are not like

8:22evidence of uh a lack of engagement is evidence that you are a Zionist. But as time progressed, it becomes clear where your priorities lie and who you view as,

8:31you know, worthy um worthy victims, I suppose. And and like you guys Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Isa.

8:38Oh, no. I was going to say I I think it's totally reasonable to infer or deduce someone's priorities by you know observing what they do and don't uh hold

8:47a spot a spotlight to like there are people who will go on and on and on about um anti-semitism screeching from their bair mansions

8:55about how it's such a you know it's ruining their lives but at the same time it's like you have a massive platform

9:02start talking about the Palestinians start talking about the um all of the [ __ ] that Israel is committing against them and stop like deducing it down to only the right wing in Israel,

9:12only Netanyahu in Israel. Start taking aim at the entirety of the ethnos supremacist project that is Zionism and don't hold water for it. And I think by

9:21examining whether or not people can do that, you can you can definitely fairly deduce um where their priorities lie.

9:29Yeah. Yeah. And I mean even two, you know, well, 2 years after October the 7th, the chancellor of the exjecker in the UK, which is kind of like the

9:38equivalent of the minister of finance in in like other countries, she was at like the Labour Friends of Israel, which is a

9:46bizarre organization to genuinely exist in politics, to call yourself proudly a friend of Israel, you know, a straight up a parttheid state undeniably. Like I

9:56when I was talking the other day with Lonabox, I was like, "You think there's a partid in the West Bank? There are three million Palestinians there." You know, if you are against it, it is an

10:04inappropriate crime against humanity. If you seriously want to play this ridiculous game of pretending that there is some kind of major difference with

10:12Palestinians and you know, existing in 48 Palestine, Israel proper, whatever you want to call it.

10:19Israel is still committing a part in your eyes. But she was even in Israel proper.

10:24Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I I mean I would argue that but that's kind of the denial that people would use but it's like you still you still are willing to concede there are millions of people subjected

10:32to apartheide and like the chancellor of the excheer like a senior politician in the UK is just at this Labour friends of Israel saying we

10:40shouldn't be ashamed of being Zionists and it's like there are 70,000 at minimum dead in Gaza.

10:48you should be very ashamed that you have supported and enabled that and have dehumanized people to a point where this is feasible or plausible, you know, and

10:56the fact that there's no shame is just horrifying.

10:59Yeah. Yeah. you guys mentioned uh briefly like in the last episode which I was listening to because I'm your guys'

Chapter 3: Is it Wrong to Compare Zionism to Nazism?

11:06number one fan but talking about the comparison between Israel and Nazi Germany and the way that some have Ethan

11:14Klein I mean for example made a story about how it's anti-semitic to compare um kids that were treating uh Bezel

11:22Smootrich like the just leader of the one of the leaders of the Nazi regime in Israel as like Taylor Swift like they were super excited to see him and then

11:31people were comparing them to the Hitler youth and it's being it's been floated around and it's a common defense of Israel that like it's you're uniquely

11:39targeting people's Jewishness by like trying to antagonize them secretly by calling them Nazis when in reality it's

11:46just the structure of racial supremacist genocide. That's exactly what they're doing. That's what the Nazis did. It's a perfectly apt comparison. and like even

11:55I guess entertaining the idea that you know maybe it hurts the their feelings so we should use a different metaphor.

12:03First of all the metaphor is the most apt for a western audience of course I mean because of a lot of reasons in order to sustain to sustain Israel and

12:12to you know um it's the most like widely written about and understood immediately if you say Nazis that's like one of the

12:19pure evils of like government of war of genocide of anything. So it it resonates, but in order to if you're going to entertain the idea that it's

12:28hurting their feelings and that you shouldn't make that comparison, then you are basically saying historical oppression absolves them of the possibility of committing genocide. It

12:36absolves them of the moral weight of uh participating in you know expansionism

12:44on ethnic grounds. And that's I mean I don't know the the we have the phrase like Jewish supremacy written down here

12:52and Jewish exceptionalism is also one that's been kind of spoken on. Um and I think it is kind of this uh this

12:59situation where if you yeah if you're going to allow it to if you're if you're exempt from being made

13:06to uh being compared with historical examples of oppression then I mean you're just rationalizing future current and future examples of oppression. So,

13:14and you know this only really applies to Jewish people because the uncomfortable truth of the matter is the Holocaust

13:21also dramatically persecuted Romani people, Slavs, uh, gay people, leftists.

13:28So if a Romani person went up to a Jewish person, I made this analogy last episode, but if if a Romani person was,

13:35you know, on an anti-semitic tirade saying a whole bunch of, you know,

13:39racist [ __ ] had a Twitter page called Hitler, you know, a 1488, whatever, you would have no problem saying, "Okay,

13:46this Romani person is a Nazi." You know,

13:50cognitive dissonance aside, um, this person is a Nazi. that person still has can lay can you know fall back on the

13:59true claim that uh Romani people were persecuted in the Holocaust but no one would really take that seriously as like

14:07a a shield for criticism on their part they wouldn't be able to um you know

14:13distance themselves from it and uh use that as like a protection yeah I think there's also something really interesting that you said Noah

14:22and I'm not Sure, it's like a good or a positive thing, but Westerners bear in mind generally the images exclusively of

14:31the Holocaust. They don't really think about the images that came out of, you know, Algeria, the things that the French did there. Sure, it didn't reach

14:39the same scale as the Holocaust, but you know, the same with the Congo where 10 million people died or British famines that were orchestrated anywhere,

14:48Ireland, so many places where huge Germany in Namibia, Germany, that's not even the first um genocide Germany committed in that century. They did one

14:56in Namibia that they denied for [laughter] so long.

14:59I think there's still some maintenance of denial around that. And particularly the biggest case is Americans. Many Americans sit there and say, "Don't make

15:07that comparison." when you know as as I'm sure most if not everyone who's watching this knows there is a long-standing link between the Nazis and

15:15the the Americans Hitler spoke in the unpublished mind camp about his second mine camp his admiration of the American

15:23regime and how they were a race state that was like worthy of admiration and um I think in this

15:31just briefly if you saw the clip of Nick Fuentes on Piers Morgan making that comparison in reverse America or like a

15:39theoretical white ethnostate with Israel and saying what Israel is doing in that regard is awesome. We want that. But

15:46he's also anti-semitic but he also hates Israel them bombing children. So that's a little confusing but at the same time it's the same structure, right?

15:52Same logic. Tucker Carlson used to make that exact same comparison.

15:56Yeah. I mean Nick Fuentes's views about interest Israel are I I don't really know what they are. And because he's

16:03more of like a classic a classical anti-semite, I think historically he just used to say well he I know he said this he said I don't have a dog in that

16:11fight about Israel and Palestine on the just pearly things podcast. Uh you know a brilliant in influencer of bygone times now unfortunately but on the

16:19podcast you can you can check this. He 100% says I don't have a dog in that fight. And largely his opinion has just changed because he's clearly seen the way the wind is going and gone like yeah

16:28I didn't like Jewish people anyway. So now there's a whole amount of people that I can kind of like poison the minds of and make them think that America is amazing and that Israel has ruined it.

16:37And like that that's where the troubling anti-semitism lies. You know, the the the the way that the American government behaves in terms of Israel and the fact

16:45that there are so many people who still believe in the idea of America and can just be tricked into kind of believing Israel did this. Mhm.

16:54Chris always says um says this pertaining to Nazism and he boils it down to its fundamentals and he says

17:01that at its core it's a it's a hyper racist identitarian movement that you know prioritizes like the perceived purity of the in-roup and the perceived

17:10inferiority of the outroup. And if you just boil it down, strip it down to those fundamentals,

17:15it's it's not at all inappropriate to apply that same logic to another analogous uh ideology. And I think

17:23Zionism, like if if there were to be another ideology that could perfectly map on to what I just described, it

17:32would be Zionism. And to and to gatekeep that comparison behind this, you know,

17:37pearl clutching of of, oh, this is offensive stifles the discourse. And it's a discourse that we should be having. If

17:45uh anyone in the audience hasn't read it, I would recommend the Holocaust industry by Norm Finkelstein. That's like a good interesting part starting point as to um Oh, camera turned off.

17:56One sec to start talking about the Holocaust [laughter] me. man.

18:03Yeah. The so the the the idea of like the unique position that Jewish people have due to historical suffering that

18:12exempts them from comparisons of previous genocides and committing previous genocides. And that in the western cultural consciousness has a lot

18:20to do with the funding and proliferation of specifically Holocaust education for

18:28the aims of pro-Israel groups and for the aims of jarring up um fear and narratives about anti-semitism in order

18:36to justify Israeli colonialism. And um the the I think the one crazy statistic

18:43is that post Holocaust, I think 10 or 15 years post Holocaust, there were only two English language um publications

18:53written about the Holocaust. Um in I don't know I don't remember if it was Raul Hillberg and one other author. Um

19:02and it wasn't until the 1967 war that

19:08due to American power uh in interests things shifted immediately. funding went into it and um

19:16so much research was done and so much public research in terms of like when they would poll people before the significance among Americans and among

19:24Jewish Americans as well of the Holocaust was so much lower than it was as soon as American imperial power shifted and said we're going to ally

19:32with Israel and these are the things that um we are going to prioritize and then tied up with all most of these

19:40organizations are I mean the IH definition of anti-semitism which directly supports Israel. That's the that's a Holocaust, you know, um

19:49initiative uh initiative. And and um none of this has anything really to do

19:55with the aspect of like the needs of uh you know, funding historical research.

20:02God damn it. Um [laughter] sorry,

20:06Barry Weiss has has p purchased Streamyard. She's expanding.

20:12Yeah. No more no more Streamyard for for Noah.

20:15No more anti-Zionist content. You're being censored. [laughter]

20:18Barry Weiss is in my camera's battery pulling wires.

20:22But yeah, no, that I'm happy you brought that book up because um in it he he he points out that yeah, like the majority of Jewish people um post Holocaust did

20:31not have sympathies for Israel, American Jewish people I should say. And um actually sympathy with the Holocaust uh

20:39post World War II was actually seen as like a communist sympathy. So it wasn't something that was um you know openly

20:46expressed so often. And then yeah, as you mentioned the 676 day war, the Israelis proved their military might as well as other like cold war politics in

20:54the region um played a role and the rest is history. the uh you know the US jumped at it and they they understood

21:03the um position that Israel could play in relation to their imperial ambitions and um it's where we are now. I think

21:12that also people want to kind of wash their hands of it and that's such a major part of

21:19it. the way in which Nazism is viewed as like this unique bizarre aberration that came out of nowhere that was just this

21:27thing that was like bad and evil in in one of my favorite books about this he talks about the Indiana Jones films and there's two lines across I think the

21:35first and third one and in the first one he's like snakes I hate those guys and in the last one he goes Nazis I hate those guys and in the film they're

21:44basically it might be actually the other way around film wise but anyway in the in the film the Nazis are just like as evil as snakes. They're just like an

21:52evil bad guy for Indiana Jones to kind of conquer. And they're bad because they're evil because of their hubris rather than their politics. And I think

22:00that that is one of the most important things to realize cuz so many people wanted to be like, "No, no, no. We weren't doing anything like this." And before the show, I was literally talking

22:08to uh Isaac about this. I was shocked to read this and I shouldn't have been. But one of the things I learned recently was

22:15that the League of Nations couldn't agree on after the first world war on writing into law that all human beings

22:23were created equal because Lord Balffor who wrote the Balffor declaration uh which basically guaranteed the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine which was

22:32an incredibly racist document refused to say that a central African person was in any way equal to a European person

22:39because of social Darwinism and like uh you know the fact that so many people want to pretend that the West are like

22:47awesome heroes and that, you know, we may have been a little bit bad, but this was just like a one-off thing that happened. This was all of Europe's

22:54crime. This was colonialism's crime. And I think that this is a problem when people act as if it is a unique thing when it is a point of reference for, you

23:02know, a society that has become so racist where it is acting in a self like Israel is in a self-destructive

23:11like acting in a self-destructive way. I am sorry. H finding a two-state solution with the Palestinian people where you can get left alone by the international

23:18community, sell your [ __ ] liberal vision whilst continuing, you know, uh racist policies against them is a far better position to be in than engaging

23:27in a mass slaughter that has pushed you to this point of, you know, being a global outcast. And I know it's a minute thing, but I don't know if either of you have seen this. Two Eurovision winners,

23:37uh, one from 1994 and one from last year have returned their awards. Five of the countries from Eurovvision have pulled out. And apparently, I heard this the

23:46other day, 160 million people watch Eurovvision.

23:50So many people are being denied their slop. And at this point, now Eurovision is targeting Noah. They're taking away his camera. [laughter] No.

23:58Yeah. I I I just think that like on the topic of you know um on the top on this topic of kind of the way in which people

24:05believe that this is some kind of uniquely bad insult to be called it describes a kind of politics that the modern Republican party is

24:15very similar to that people like Charlie Kirk if you analyze his rhetoric and bother comparing it to you know the Nazis

24:24and and the same goes for Kahana I I I've spoken about this multiple times.

24:28There's a Hitler quote where he's talking about Germans attacking Jewish women. That was a key base of Kahana,

24:34Israel, Mayor Kahana, the racist American rabbi who goes over to Israel.

24:39It's key base of his politics like uh talking about sexually motivated, sorry,

24:44racially motivated sexual attacks. It's a commonality. It's always interesting like specifically with Kahana and like

24:52the KAK movement and stuff. I'd be very interested to maybe present like a a collection of like quotes of theirs to a

25:02you know someone who finds offense in the comparison between Zionism and and Nazism and ask them like what what do

25:09you call this like when when Kahana is you know relating Arabs to to animals and saying like oh we should go in there

25:16turn the cameras off and like kill them all or you know we went over it last episode. How how else can you describe

25:23that? The the the story you told me about um like the equivalent of pretty much crystal knock where they would go

25:30to um businesses and and under the threat of violence tell them not to employ uh or serve to Arab people.

25:39What is that? What is that other than like a mirror image of Nazism?

25:44Mhm. Even the term Judeo-Nazi was invented by an Israeli Jewish person. It's not like some It's not like

25:52some invention from Western society meant to hurt Jewish people. It was an observation made in the 1980s. And another bizarre Kahana fact that I'm

26:01ure most people have never heard is after Kahana was uh Kahana was came to power in the 1980s the Israeli military

26:10had to engage in like teaching people about democracy because apparently multiple Israeli military units had been referring to themselves as the Mangala

26:18squads and they'd also as in reference to Ysef Mangala they'd been cooking up ways to kill uh Palestinians

26:26and they had no problem comparing themselves because they had similar heenous plans of extermination. And the fact that people bork at this comparison is a joke. You know, as you were saying,

26:36two months in, two years into this. It's it's it's so um I mean the it's not even

26:44hubris cuz it works when in your face they will essentially be carving, you know, a Star of David into someone's

26:52forehead or like driving bulldozers over Gaza and drawing them. And then also,

26:58you know, the noose pin that Ben Greer was wearing recently where they're saying, "You can kill these people.

27:04These people are bugs." And we're saying that over and over and over again. And it's not just the military. It's not just the politicians, but it's translate

27:11from Hebrew. Just any tweet, just street interviews in Tel Aviv. It's the dehumanization is is everywhere. It is

27:19completely um widespread and thoroughly baked into the society. and then for them to turn around and deny it, act

27:28like it's not happening or and then even further push it so that people are framed as anti-Semitic for wanting to talk about it and then for the people in

27:36the west to buy into it for people to in the west to entertain the idea. It's that maybe like I'm I'm a little scared

27:44to speak out. I I I I don't want to sound like the term Jewish supremacy is scary for a lot of people cuz even though if you translate that to white

27:52supremacy, people understand that perfectly fine. People on the left use it very often, when it turns to Jewish supremacy, there's a certain there's so

28:00much like psychological baggage, a lot of which is an intentional effort from Israel to, you know, perpetuate this

28:07myth that we are supreme, we are special, and we get to do things that you don't, including committing genocides. And if you want us to stop

28:15doing that, you are trampling over our rights. And it's um you know, it's it's what's I don't even get frustrated when

28:23they say these things cuz it's obvious when you know, right-wing Zionists, liberal Zionists even do these things, they're they're that's so predictable.

28:31We've seen it over and over again. But then when I see, you know, so-called leftists seeding to these positions about the validity of Zionism or about

28:40allowing Zionists or Zionist rhetoric or capitulating to uh the framing that this

28:47could be anti-semitic, centering Jewish suffering and Jewish pain in a conversation about Palestinian extermination. It's it's repulsive, but

28:56it's happening from the left, which it kind of has been eye opening to see that the left in the west is, you know, very

29:04compromised by liberal Zionism to the point that, you know, there there's very few people left after you filter out the kinds of people that are going to say,

29:12um, you know, that are going to center,

29:16uh, Israeli suffering, Jewish suffering in a conversation about very real material oppression. So, the uh quote

Chapter 4: The Purported ‘Ceasefire’ & The Structure of Settler-Colonialism

29:24unquote ceasefire, you guys want to get into that? and um what it means to have a you know a ceasefire uh a sessation of this

29:33particular bout of hostilities and you know distilling the entire Palestinian plight down to that and that doesn't

29:41really keep in mind the fact that this is this has been going on forever and conceding to the logic of well this one

29:49ceasefire it's not even really a ceasefire because they're still going but this is what we this is what we should have been striving for this is the end all be all and how conce

29:58conceding to that logic is well that's the logic of the colonizer because the issue is not necessarily

30:05only this round of hostilities but the settler colonial project that is Israel and Noah I know you had a lot to say

30:12about this topic so I'll give it off to you um I mean I'm sure it's been frustrating

30:20for all of us to see the ceasefire lie being perpetuated the bold-faced nature

30:27of the IDF continuing to even post when they say they've elimated eliminated terrorists at the yellow line, but then

30:35the article comes out and it's a three-year-old girl who was shot twice in the head in a wedding. Um yeah,

30:41that it's like, you know, it's insulting, it's horrific, but it is uh

30:47entirely predictable from Israel. Um what may have felt less predictable is the

30:55western left's response to it where a lot of people are continuing to co talk about it or a lot of people are continuing obviously to cover the daily

31:04killings the continued blockade specifically in the context of housing you know with the rains and the floods

31:12um part of the part all the way back in January of you know 2024 part of the

31:18ICJ's rule about genocide against Israel was the need to provide adequate housing and part of the process of ethnic

31:26cleansing is to deny them that and while also lying that they are actually bringing in enough uh however many

31:33thousands of drugs per day. Um, so all of this is a lie and all of this is very obviously meant to distract and just put

31:42it at the back of the at the news the back of the news sticker and relegate Gaza to what it was before October 7th

31:49which was completely gone from the stage of international news.

31:54And when it we say ceasefire like there has been no ceasefire. There has been no letting up of violence against Palestinians. Whether that looks like actual bullets and firing or starvation,

32:06ethnic cleansing, just destruction for no reason, the destruction of crops,

32:11violence, slow, long-term violence, the kind of violence that, you know, when people talk about what Hamas did with

32:18the money they sent them, the money that's been taken from Gaza is incalculable. Well, it's calculable, but it's it it's several orders of magnitude

32:27over what a human society uh is. They've been robbed of everything. And um that

32:35sort of violence isn't understood when you talk about a ceasefire. And in the western consciousness, it does seem like

32:41even if the ceasefire is apparent um or even if it's being called a ceasefire and the numbers of deaths are lesser than they were before, first of all,

32:52lesser than an entire genocide of like 30 kids a day being slaughtered. How what what kind of lesser is that? It's

32:59still people, but um I think it's 400 people have been killed uh since the so-called ceasefire. But there is, I

33:06think, a psychological element of partly relief when we look at the actual toll and when we look at obviously

33:14Palestinian responses in Gaza to the ceasefire, to the sessation of active continued bombing like every day all the time, even though it is still happening,

33:24but you know, responses from people saying like there is some level of reprieve. There are there's footage of rebuilding, there's footage of people

33:31going back to school, and there's things that point towards uh an improved life,

33:38but then at the same time, we see I guess that probably contributes to this feeling of like apathy or this feeling

33:45of, you know, this psychological sort of um lowering of the importance of Gaza in the minds of even people even I think liberals definitely the protests are,

33:56you know, fewer um the online um the proliferation of news and coverage is lesser and it's not really because the

34:05people that have been covering it have stopped. most of them have continued,

34:10but um I think the people that have been paying attention, maybe more passively,

34:15have said, "Okay, well, there's a ceasefire." And okay, when I read, you know, mainstream coverage of what the ceasefire looks like, they frame it

34:22pretty much as Hamas is still there and they're they're still bad guys and they haven't laid down their arms and they're, you know, Trump's trying his best to make peace, but um ultimately,

34:32you know, the bombing is still targeting terrorists and there's a lot less of them and that's probably good or

34:39whatever. Um, some of the Oh god, I can't read the New York I can't read the New York Times without

34:46like damaging my teeth from from grinding. So, [laughter]

34:51it's so it's so impossible. I have the Chsky,

34:55not the brain, the smart one, but like the grinding teeth. So,

35:01oh my god. It's like Yeah, it's it's it's horrific because of how p how passive it is. like how how effectively

35:10in the minds of a westerner that kind of cares about this, that have seen what's happened and is like, "Yeah, I think 50,000 kids um being killed is bad." Uh

35:19at the same time is able to immediately return to the programming of what it means to um I guess witness um slow

35:27genocide, slow ethnic cleansing, which is just not think about it. I believe it was Elon Pap. He referred to the state of affairs in Gaza prior to the genocide

35:36as an incremental genocide a while ago, long long before this this round of hostilities started. Um but again, yeah, like prior to October 7th,

35:49uh 2022, 2023, this is some of the most violent times for Palestinians in Gaza in in recent history. So to act as though just because this flare up is,

36:01you know, purportedly starting to cease,

36:03which it's not, but purportedly just because that's happening where we've,

36:08you know, achieved our goal is is far from the truth. If anything, this is when people should start uh ramping up their support for Palestine because at the end of the day,

36:17their their uh aspirations have not been met. And if anything, now we're going to see uh USled coalition occupation forces

36:27uh now occupying Gaza, now milking it for all of its for all it's worth, engaging in uh real estate construction.

36:36People are going to get extremely rich.

36:38And now the Palestinians in Gaza are not even going to have that anymore. They're going to they're going to be relegated to an even smaller strip of Gaza,

36:47Yeah. I I think to be honest this is a problem with generally how people see and understand Palestine that the structure is so much more important than

36:55the event and once again this is a wolf thing in terms of Palestine he his famous quote is invasion is a

37:02structure not an event the settler comes to stay October the 7th and the and the date since has been like a spectacularly

37:10violent outburst of Israel's violence against Palestinians and also you know October the 7th itself. But before that,

37:19Israel was still doing the same things.

37:21The genocide is just an acceleration of a pre-existing genocide. I don't the term incremental genocide makes sense.

37:28And I was asking a scholar once upon a time about all of these terms and whether they were actually necessary like bread um scholasticide, ecoside,

37:36herbicide as in to destroy a city,

37:39scholasticide to destroy like knowledge and academia, schools, all this stuff. Ultimately, [snorts]

37:45Israel has always taken aim at the fabric of Palestinian society. It has made it unlivable. It developed the

37:51economy of the Gaza Strip in the in the 1970s ' 67 onwards. Really, it wasn't like something that magically came out of

38:00nowhere. They've always sought to drive Palestinians out. And it's not always through spectacular killing. Sometimes it's through things like family reunification laws where you can remove

38:09a huge amount of Palestinians by preventing Palestinians from getting married and uniting from say uh inside

38:1648 Palestine to the West Bank, Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem and saying you're not going to be able to reunite together. And so what do people do? They go to other countries. They start their

38:25families in other countries. Sure, it seems like a small amount of people, but it's about this slow genocidal structure of violence that was that developed very

38:34early on in the Zionist project of basically, okay, we're going to we don't have a space for the Palestinians in a society that we seek to build here. And

38:43you know, a lot of this episode and like our last episode is kind of talking about liberal Zionism versus right-wing Zionism.

38:50liberal Zionists, you know, e Ethan literally said it. Well, Israel has to maintain a demographic majority.

38:58If the Palestinians outnumber the Jews,

39:00it's everything's they won't be safe. They won't be safe.

39:03They don't get their state anymore. And it's like, and you know, tapping back into something as well. What is this?

39:09Like, I'm seeing the lack of safety. I'm seeing extermination right now. I would rather invest in the hope that there is

39:16some kind of equitable solution in which human beings can exist together without this need for hyper racist nation

39:23states. These things are bad. They've been bad since their inception. And Israel is the perfect point of a nation

39:30state taken to its extreme. All these leftists bork at what Trump does. They bork at what the UK uh the UK right is doing. Their talks of remigrating

39:39people, balancing demographics. They they cry about it. And you know, yet when they see someone taking that to its most extreme point, they're just like,

39:48well, you know, what about Jewish people and people being mean on campuses? You know, it's like

39:57what am I meant to say to build off that point you made about the referring to Patrick Wolf and and how it's uh we have to view things in terms of being

40:05structures as opposed to events. And you brought up Ethan Klein as well. He has he has done that exact thing pertaining to the Nagba. He's acted as though it was one single event, one single day,

40:15and not an ongoing structure that persists to this day. He his famous or his now infamous outburst. Do you know what happened one day before the Nagba?

40:25[laughter] Brother, the Nagba is still ongoing. It's still ongoing. The Palestinians have not been yet able to return even though that is an

40:32internationally recognized right of theirs. one of the events that founded I think played a huge role in founding the

40:40initial structure of like left-wing YouTube of critiques on YouTube in video essays of right-wing politics was the

40:50Charlottesville unite the right rally in 2017 that was kind of I think [snorts]

40:54Nick Fuentes was there and the famous line of them carrying the tiki torches all the white nationalists was Jews will not replace us

41:01now these are like you know Nazis They're also no people. They're gropers. They're people with no systemic power.

41:09And what were we talking about about demographic change in Israel? That's just Arabs will not replace us enacted in policy funded and backed by the most

41:18powerful military on the planet. That's those are very different things. And this is why in terms of priorities, kind of like what we were talking about earlier about what you choose to talk

41:27about. You can talk you can talk about rhetorical anti-semitism. Um, you can talk about racist tweets. You can talk

41:35about at Hitler1488 in your replies, but the fact that you haven't talked about a 100,000 people being gunned down because

41:44Arabs will not replace us, the exact rationale of the rhetoric that you're hoping to identify, it says a lot about your priorities. It says a lot about who

41:53you are granting human agency to. And um, that's all I wanted to add. So,

41:58absolutely. No, I could I could not agree more. I think I actually sort of have a question here as well which we were we were thinking about emotional

Chapter 5: Why Covering Palestine is Important Despite the Emotional Challenge

42:05responses before. How do you think you found this like emotionally talking about Gaza and Palestine in comparison

42:14to the previous content you made? Cuz surely it must be very different, right?

42:20Yeah, it's um I mean the last two and a half years or two two or so years have definitely like they've definitely

42:26changed me. Um, but then it's gone in phases, I think, in terms of like how I

42:34feel about it and how it contributes to the things that I'm doing um when I'm talking about it. And um I mean before

42:43I've try I was trying to invest emotionally and invest um I guess intellectually into critiquing online right-wing culture, critiquing online,

42:54you know, regressive gender politics.

42:57But those things, the feelings that I have towards those pale in comparison and pale in their effect on my um unlike

43:06my soul or my psyche or whatever, not to get mystical with it, but like on who I am in comparison to what I've seen in

43:13comparison to witnessing a genocide and seeing it every day and then learning about what that means and learning about what real power is and how real power

43:21backs that. these old ideas, these regressive ideas of politics, there's,

43:26you know, systemic structures that are maintained, but those systemic structures are not being reamplified

43:34uh and being, you know, pushing actual real material change in a direction because of Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate is

43:42popular because of larger structures in power that are moving in these directions, in the rightward swing of

43:48politics in general. Um and so yeah, I mean after I guess after October

43:557th it becomes this thing where um it's I've reckoned with recently the fact that my actual feelings have

44:03changed over time where sometimes I've felt so fired up and so wanting to, you know, talk about it every day and wanting to talk about everyone I see and

44:12being um just combative with anyone that about any topic in person with my family

44:19and friends sitting in a room at where I know that if I've tried to talk to people about Israel, like I feel like I'm I would sound a little insane if I break my silence at a party being like,

44:28"Did you know that Israel just today killed 100 kids with a bomb?" That's not a socially acceptable thing to do, but it's all I think at times that's been

44:37all I think about. And I think that's a very I mean, it's an understandable reaction to what we've witnessed, but it's also

44:45not sustainable. Uh, and so I mean it's teetered from that to complete like to just pushing it away and being like I

44:54mean I'll do what I can but this is I I don't know what to make of this and I maybe I like that makes me weak and maybe that makes me you know a western

45:03chauvinist for not being able to like maintain the emotional state to continue to advocate. Um but after a certain

45:12period of time of these emotions swinging you come to a place where you I mean I don't know I'm still working on it but uh trying to see that there's a

45:19balance between advocacy and between emotional uh connection and um your your

45:26own emotional well-being and that in the long term affecting you know being the priority in terms of your advocacy you

45:35know like you can't sustain constant misery shame and disgust and combiveness and and viewing people as, you know,

45:45complicit in this thing. Um, if you want to actually do things that change and actually do things that like convince

45:52people and show people through information propaganda, uh, that what's happening is wrong. Um, so yeah, I think

46:00like that that is, um, several orders of magnitude more intense and and real emotions than before. Um, which is not

46:08to disparrage anyone that's still making, you know, manosphere content because, you know, it's it's YouTube,

46:12like people make videos about whatever they want, but that's my personal experiences of it. Um, and I know you guys haven't always made this kind of

46:20content necessarily. Um, and have had other interests. So, I'm curious if that if that has if you can relate to that at all.

46:27Well, first I want to commend you on your transformation from uh anti-read pill, which is still valuable content,

46:33but to becoming an anti-imperialist Chad. So, um, it actually is really [ __ ] cool, dude. I'm not gonna lie.

46:40Uh, but also because, you know, it's like you said, it's psychologically draining work like to research for that type for these types of videos and and

46:48read and and script write and be immersed in the devastation that is studying Israel and Palestine. Um, you

46:55know, it's not for like the the faint of heart. It can get extremely draining.

47:00It's not and I have a faint heart and that's the issue is just it can ruins me and you maybe you can tell. I don't know. I'm I'm so I'm such a softy that it's like,

47:08damn, I wish I was. I mean, I've heard Finkelestein talk about how he just doesn't look at the pictures. He just reads the reports. It's probably a good place to start, I think, for a lot of people. But but yeah,

47:18I think there's a an The only interesting take I've ever heard about images and the problems with them is if

47:26you look at the images, sometimes you imagine the trauma is your own. And you do experience trauma in seeing how awful some of the images have been out of

47:34Gaza. And it's so hard. And there are some that are seared into my brain forever that anytime I mention that, you know, they instantly come back and I can

47:42see them and I can feel them. But at the same time, I get to switch off my phone. Like it's not my trauma. It it isn't.

47:49I'm not the person living it. I don't smell death. I don't exist in Gaza in the constant fear of death with the drone humming above you. It's it's not.

47:58But and and I don't think that that should disparrage anyone who's had like strong reactions. There are like you know there are many Tik Toks there anytime I would upload a Tik Tok where I

48:06was impassioned by something that had happened I it would get taken down because I would just speak so frankly about Israel and not be like anti-semitic or anything it would just

48:14be because I wasn't able to control my emotions. I remember there was a video uh it was someone being thrown off a building in the West Bank like an

48:22incapacitated Palestinian just thrown off a building and it's just like my god like h how is this a real thing? Like h how is this a real thing that I'm

48:30witnessing? And you know like it will count for nothing. The Palestinians in the imagination of most people will be the barbarous savages who committed a

48:39kind of violence that was unparalleled uh by Israel. Israel could never do something like that. You know October the 7th they did these unimaginable

48:48violences that most of us don't even understand. The only thing I think I have that is I guess probably different from both of you is I studied this at

48:55university. So the people around me were from the region. Their lives had been dedicated to this, you know, Palestinians,

49:03people from the Middle East who'd had their hopes dashed in 2011, you know, people from different spaces and places. And I remember I asked like a lecturer,

49:12I was like, "How do you read this stuff?" I can't remember what I was reading at the time, and just not feel like abject misery or the kind of

49:19thought that there's no chance of like a victory. And he was kind of like, I think it's about hope. I think it's about maintaining hope. And I won't be blindly hopeful that someone will save

49:28the world. And I think that's a thing of our era. There's a reason that superhero films are so [ __ ] popular. You know,

49:34that we have so many crises around us and people like to imagine them being fixed by one individual flying in and fixing it. That's not going to happen.

49:42But I still think we have to maintain hope that there is something else out there. And I think, you know, we can invest in Palestinians in many ways.

49:48Like Palestinians have stood in the face of this structure, this uh death drive, the Zionist death drive for decades.

49:57They have lost and suffered so much. And yet so many people are resilient. They stand up and they affirm life in a place where Israel has only ever offered them death, be that physical or or cultural.

50:09your favorite Sardinian has a quote about this. The maintain the pessimism of the intellect but the optimism of the

50:17will. like you you don't lie to yourself. You know, [ __ ] is [ __ ] grim,

50:22but you you know, you keep you keep doing it out of out of a sense of hope,

50:26out of a sense of justice, and you you keep advocating. Like, it is horrible.

50:29Like, there are times where I'm researching, and you know, I'm I'm I'm a I'm a softy too at times. I I cry when I'm reading the [ __ ] but I'm also like

50:37maybe it's because I have like a like an MMA kind of background and that's what what I've done like for like the beginning of my life for like years and

50:44years. I'm pretty quickly able to to hone that like that sadness into like just kind of anger or like um not anger but more so like determination.

50:56And um at least for me, I'm able to kind of like transform that into okay, I'm I'm feeling extremely strongly about this right now. I'm going to uh transfer

51:04this energy into researching and doing what I can to combat this. Um, but again like Chris says it I can I can shut my laptop and at the end of the day I can,

51:15you know, uh go to bed in my warm bed and I don't have to worry about like the flooding in Gaza or if I'm going to eat tonight or whatever it may be.

51:27Yeah, I think like I mean [sighs and gasps] I guess I have a couple questions, but initially like

51:35the it's it's one of the most consistent ways that I and I think a lot of people kind of push away those emotions of, you know, rage,

51:49disgust, fear, anxiety from what we're seeing is the relativism of saying, who am I to sit and cry about this video.

51:58When someone's in that, a human is in that video being shot, being tortured,

52:03being raped. A human who has family, a family is looking at this video, that is their family member. Uh fear of that

52:12happening to them is very real. there's a there's a relativism that makes it so that

52:18I think it makes sense like intellectually and for politics why that um you have to get over that thought and

52:27I think I'm curious like the MMA background what you mean in terms of your ability to push it away but also um

52:35just real quick before I forget that I I I do think I I don't see a lot of space

52:42carved out Understandably so, but I don't I mean maybe there are people that I just haven't seen it talking about that initial psychological reaction how

52:51I mean some people are obviously so strong and so resilient and able to push through that but I think a lot of people aren't they have a lot more trouble and

53:00even if they do push through it there's there's wounds and there's like psychological damage that you're carrying with you that I mean you're you're never going to understand it

53:08you're never going to fully be able to break it down and hopefully you do but ignoring it I think It's it's it's easy to intellectually rationalize ignoring

53:16it, but that also doesn't make it go away and that doesn't make it um I guess uh any less real and it's hard it's really hard thing to talk about cuz you

53:25are ultimately centering yourself but we are all people and we are all trying to contribute to this thing to help where the like material violence is happening.

53:34Um but I mean yes I guess some people push are able to push through. Um, all the people that I think respect and admire are the people who save that emotional uh reckoning for off camera.

53:47Um, I guess except like Gabber Mate or or other people that are focused more on like the at times emotive psychological

53:55elements of this kind of trauma. Um, and he might be the person I just need to read more of. Um but ultimately I mean what you're saying the relativity is is

54:03kind of like for what we are doing the relativity the pushing through that feeling to understand what to use it as fuel is probably the most optimal.

54:15Yeah that's all I really meant that's all I meant like when I was in MMA I would just if I had like a grievance and during the day uh I would you know I

54:23would feel strongly about it and then I would just let it out when I would go to class at night or some [ __ ] or if I had like a fight or whatever. But um just that logic and transferring it over to

54:32the work that I do now, I get uh I don't want to say catharsis, but I would say um you know just being able to channel

54:40just like the desperation, the sadness into a work of like you know debunking it, creating like a piece that I can

54:48channel my sadness into as a way to at least selfishly distract myself away from it because I get the privilege of doing that. Um, but yeah, I agree with

54:57what you're saying about how it's it's really hard to to talk as like creators in the first world about um how our psychological,

55:06you know, feelings pertaining to this because it just pales so hard far in comparison and it's an uncomfortable thing to talk about, but it is true like we can

55:14ignore. It doesn't really go away the fact that it is like very psychologically scarring and uncomfortable work. And I think just real quick beyond like creators I think

55:24viewers like people that we are wanting to pull into the fold more likely. Yeah,

55:29we want to do that. So that's why I guess it's our responsibility to push through it. But I think for broader populace, it's it is a lot harder than

55:37than people who like us who do dedicate our time to studying and understanding and being able to intellectualize. And I

55:44guess that's where I'm I'm curious if it's beneficial at all to talk about that. But as creators, it feels just gross. It feels like, you know, I don't

55:52know, streaming is harder than a nineto five or whatever. It's like don't like shut up. But at the same time, the lack of uh um conversation around it makes me

56:00curious as to how viewers feel cuz I know I' I've read comments of people talking about how this genocide has stolen from them um happiness, peace,

56:10even if that peace is just it's in their mind, that's still a person, you know.

56:14Um but again don't want to center it too much but I mean I think this is also interesting because obviously I was at university

56:23uh during like when when this started I returned to university like just before October the 7th and there was someone

56:30from Gaza who was at my university. She had left in September of 2023. And so it was always interesting like when we were

56:37doing the encampment and stuff she would talk about you know her family and what they were going through. And I remember one time there was a really like shocking video that came out of

56:45somewhere and she was like, I knew the person in that video. Like I know that person. They're like my I think she said like a cousin or a family friend or something to that effect. And she was

56:54like they lost their son and that's why they're sat there crying. Like their son was just killed in an Israeli bombardment. You know, she spoke about losing her brother and it was at times where like the university chancellor,

57:05she was like, I wasn't at the meeting but I know people were there. They were like, she was like, "Israel killed my brother." Like my brother was in a hospital. He was killed by Israel. Like,

57:15can you say sorry to me at least? Can you apologize that you have like a form of relationship with Israel? And she the the like the chancellor just wouldn't

57:23even say sorry to the vice chancellor wouldn't even say sorry to her or like say, you know, apologize about losing her brother. And so I think it's always

57:31like, you know, seeing some people who are really connected to it is difficult.

57:34And there's other people who I've met as well. There's a guy called Ahmed al-Nauk who's written a book called we're not we are not numbers who I've met who's uh

57:42regularly on British media because he's like oh I lost 20 members of my family in Gaza and I think that like ultimately people from Gaza and what they hope for

57:50and I think Palestinians generally what they hope for from people is to not give up to keep talking about it and I think for me like I'd never like whenever

57:57someone comes up who's Palestinian they're like oh I really appreciate what you do I'm like for me in many ways it has been a blessing because first of all

58:05I always cared about Palis Stein, but I just shouted into a void in terms of like I'd post to the the reason I had a second Instagram account was because I

58:13was like I just post on my stories and no one cares and so why don't I just start putting it on an account and I stopped doing it for like 2 years. But like during this it has been a blessing

58:22to be able to talk about it to shape in some ways on TikTok to like shape discourse around Palestine and stuff you know to help people understand it. And I

58:30think on YouTube that is also what like you know both of you guys have done like talking about you know the like your videos like some of some of the best

58:39that I've seen and like you know how to girl boss a genocide like that's a really interesting thing to talk about like kind of this intersection of

58:46Israeli feminism and western feminism of like oh look you know here's this epic strong pilot bombing Iran and freeing

58:55people there and it's like well this is just someone mass killing people and once again it goes back to this thing.

59:01Most of the people who killed in Gaza, I saw this quote recently, were secular leftists who hated Netanyahu apparently.

59:08And those are the mass killers. And I think that being able to talk about that, being able to try and move the needle away

59:15from liberal Zionism being an acceptable thing is a positive thing to have done.

59:21And I think that that is something that is good. Fenon, I think at the start of the wretched of the earth, Fenon writes like, you know, once a few years ago,

59:29these were just angry thoughts in my head and it developed into the wretched of the earth. And I'm not saying any of us have produced the wretched of the earth or anyone will again, but I think

59:38that there's merit to what he's saying in the sense of like this anger can be channeled into positive things. And in many ways, I think if we're talking about viewers,

59:47what outlet do most viewers have?

59:48They're just angry and they talk to their families about it. And in many ways as creators who get to talk to vast audiences about things we really deeply

59:57care about and get the gratification of seeing that people also that that spoke to them in some way is like a is a thing

1:00:05that during this time is not only a positive contribution to have made but is also beneficial in many ways to our own mental state with dealing with this.

1:00:15Something that I guess a viewer wouldn't enjoy if you know what I'm saying. I don't know if that made sense.

1:00:20No. No. Yeah. What I will say is I have seen some of Chris's writings, some of his essays, and all I have to say is

1:00:29close enough. Welcome back. Welcome back, France. Finan, that [ __ ] slaps, bro. He's He came back to the UK. Wow.

1:00:37He came back in the form of a of a quirked up white boy from the UK.

1:00:42Oh my goodness.

1:00:44Um, I was going to say, do you we were we are going to get to this uh Ethan Klein lawsuit stuff, but before we do

Chapter 6: Worrisome Attitudes In Israeli Society/Polling Data

1:00:52that, um, do you want to talk about just the state of affairs in Israeli society?

1:00:57The shift, I don't even know if I could say it's a shift because it's not like a recent development, but the prevalence of right Yeah. right-wing politics, just fully

1:01:05genocidal sentiment running rampant in um, Israeli society.

1:01:10Yes, I would. I brought I mean I brought that topic up to talk about because I've been working on a video about it.

1:01:17Um primarily because I am frustrated with the failure

1:01:24of the left to articulate this um at least for this message to translate. I shouldn't say failure of the left. I

1:01:32guess I mean the inability of the liberal Zionist to or the liberal to uh

1:01:39rationalize this message which is that Israel as a as a society is genocidal.

1:01:45You know it's not Netanyahu's right-wing government. It's not his government.

1:01:48It's not just the IDF even though you know you know like the so many Israelis are soldiers at the same time. It's the entire society. It's the ide ide

1:01:57ideology uh that undergurs Israel, the structure of settler colonialism.

1:02:02And I know you guys I know you guys know this, but um what I see talked about less is I mean the the attitudes of Israeli

1:02:11society and I put some together just a list of some polling um and I know there's been some reporting on this but it's it's often left out of the

1:02:20conversation. There's there's so many angles. We could talk about um the you know racist Nazilike society that is

1:02:27Israel. I know you guys talked about the the political situation and actual political parties and I want you guys to weigh in on that. But um just in terms of the attitudes, we've seen footage,

1:02:37we've seen the clips of street interviews where they're saying, "Kill them all. Gaz and mothers are not the same as mothers. They don't love their children. They want them to die." We've

1:02:45seen um you know, there are no innocents. There are no there are no like the children are ticking time bombs. They're growing up to be

1:02:52terrorists. We've seen the footage of that. I think um that stuff goes viral because it is uh absolutely self-evidently insane. And it's also

1:03:01aid with such a uh disregard for what it is that they're saying because in Israel a lot of times people that are

1:03:09saying these things don't see it as an issue. The dehumanization of Palestinians is ingrained and across the board. Um, that's why there's policies

1:03:17in the IDF. They're trying to get them to stop filming stuff and posting on social media because this stuff is normal in Israel.

1:03:25Social media. Thank you. Thank you for the help. [laughter]

1:03:27I saw I saw Chris's smile. I was like, I know what he's saying right now.

1:03:31Exactly. Despite the efforts of some of our favorite streamers, uh, they have continued to post these things. And the reason they've continued to post these

1:03:39things is that to them it's normal. Like that's one thing I I didn't really I guess realize when I see this footage,

1:03:46you know, where I see these photos of them, you know, dressing up in the underwear of the Palestinian women they've killed or ethnically cleansed.

1:03:55This footage is is being posted. It's not like this is something that's being leaked. It's not Wikileaks, you know?

1:04:01This isn't stuff that's being hidden and when found, people had this rage and reaction. It's like I know my friends and family are going to see this. they're going to like it.

1:04:11That's why you post things on social media, so people can enjoy it and engage with it and think, "Wow, you're so funny. Wow, I love what you're doing to serve our country when you're just live

1:04:20streaming a genocide." So, there's a psychological disconnect there that is so hard to rationalize and hard to even understand. When you see the post,

1:04:27you're like, "Oh, this person's crazy racist." But it's not like they're being outed for old tweets. That's a new tweet. They just tweeted that. That's a Instagram story you can still watch.

1:04:36It's not archived. this is right now,

1:04:38which is what's so, you know, insane that I kind of digressed from the the polling cuz I think um unless there's anything you wanted to add, I'll just go

1:04:46through these polls. Uh yeah, do it. Go for it.

1:04:49So, 3 weeks into the genocide on October 31st, uh the death toll was around 8,000 Palestinians, the vast majority of them

1:04:56civilians, including um OCA says around 3,500 children. So at this time 57.5%

1:05:06of Jewish Israelis said that the IDF was using too little firepower in Gaza. Um you know that that was at that point

1:05:14like you know 3 weeks into what was clearly for anyone paying attention to genocide.

1:05:18In February just a few months later 68% of Jewish Israelis opposed humanitarian aid. That's from the Israeli democ democracy in Institute.

1:05:28That was when 30,000 people had been killed, 12,600 children. Um, just a couple months later, Pew Research found

1:05:36that 39% of all Israelis thought that Israel's force in Gaza was about right. And 34% felt that it was not far enough.

1:05:44And again, the death toll at that time was 33,000, most of them women and children. Um, and I shouldn't say women and children,

1:05:52most of them civilian, right? Cuz that sort of leaves out the men in Palestine and the resistance fire. Yeah. I don't know. Um,

1:05:58yeah. So that that number earlier, one of the the polls stipulated Jewish Israelis and you guys could probably

1:06:07speak on this, but the evidence of apartheid is is very well articulated in a lot of these polls because the

1:06:15divergence in Israeli Jewish attitudes versus Israeli Arab attitudes, quote unquote Israeli Arab attitudes, which is the sort of Israeli rebranding of

1:06:23Palestinians living in Israel, is um it could not be further. So like this statistic um from that Pew Research poll

1:06:33uh the statistic um from Israeli Jews uh about though the amount of Jewish Israelis that felt Israel had gone too

1:06:41far in what was already the ICJ had concluded or had ruled a plausible case of genocide 33,000 killed was 4%. 4%

1:06:51thought genocide was too far. Israeli Arabs, Israeli Arabs, Palestinians living in Israel, uh, said 74%.

1:06:59So that's like polar opposite views,

1:07:01right? So obviously this sample size is is probably similar to a demographic majority. Um, I don't know what the exact percentage is, but it's

1:07:1020% um yeah, 20% are Arabian.

1:07:14And so um and that just continues in these polls like 6 uh in July um 66% of

1:07:22Jewish Israelis. Um this was a uh believe that it was actually Palestinians who want genocide. Um that

1:07:31was when over 38,000 had been killed. Um and that kind of shows I guess a little bit of the rationale where while committing a genocide yeah you have to rationalize it in some way.

1:07:40So you say, "Well, we're genociding them because if we don't do it, they're going to do it to us." Um, if I don't steal your home, someone else is going to steal it. You know that that

1:07:48Jacob famous uh video. Yeah. Jacob stealing Muhammad Al Kurd's house. Um Mhm.

1:07:55A year into the genocide in October of 2024, a Globes poll showed that 22% of Israelis oppose any any humanitarian aid

1:08:03from entering Gaza. 44% support aid only with hostage conditions. 27 support aid as needed. But the poll specified that

1:08:11this group was motivated by the desire to redeem Israel's image internationally. And that's another thing you notice a lot of these polls

1:08:20that they sort of a lot of times they won't translate them from English which I think is intentional. Other times they

1:08:26will um post uh relegate towards the end the motivations for their answers for these questions. So like

1:08:35um where which poll was this? Give me a second.

1:08:39So, a big story in September of this year was that Israelis were done with the war. Israelis want the war to end.

1:08:47They want peace. They want, you know, you know, they're coming to the table,

1:08:51right? Israeli society. But, um, so it was 66% of Israelis said that the time has come for the war to end. But the

1:08:58reasons are very important, right? And we can go down this this list, but so the reasons why Israeli Jews said they

1:09:06wanted the end to the war to end, 50% of them was because of the hostages. It the fighting endangered the hostages. 16%

1:09:13said that the war had already accomplished the majority of what is possible. 15 or 14.5% said that the economic and social damage is too great.

1:09:246.5% said that uh they wanted to halt the deterioration of Israel's international standing. So this makes us look bad, right?

1:09:32Yeah. How many cared about Palestinians? Yeah.

1:09:352%. 2% said cease harming residents of Gaza and begin reconstruction of the strip. So they don't care. They don't care.

1:09:44Um that percentage was I think up to 17.5% for Arabs in Israel. I don't know what the um portion of the overall stat

1:09:53is, but 2% is that's that's a genocidal society, right? That is purely um bought

1:10:01into this national project of wanting to kill and ethnically cleanse. Or if they don't, I think this poll is most indicative, they just don't care. They

1:10:09don't care if that happens. As long as it stays off their doorstep, as long as they can still party on the beach in Tel Aviv, that is fine with them. They just

1:10:18don't think about it. And when asked about it, they you can tell they don't think about it and they don't care about it. And that's where this goes so far beyond like

1:10:26any idea of like regime change or any idea of like voting out Netanyahu, which won't happen first of all, but also if

1:10:33it did, the reasons would be something similar to this, which is that well he, you know, he harmed Israelis.

1:10:39So that's the major protest movement against him that cited as most Israelis opposed Netanyahu. It wasn't that the

1:10:47far right were abusing Palestinians. It wasn't that Netanyahu was doing bad things towards Palestinians. They elected Chiron after Sabar and Shhata.

1:10:57It was because he wanted to do judicial overhauls to potentially bring the country closer to Halaka law. The fact

1:11:04is is the level of opposition against him is not as is not how people portray it. They are not so much against the

1:11:11policies of walls, the destruction of Palestinian life and society. They are just against Netanyahu being surrounded

1:11:19by farright figures who make them look bad and might affect and might engage in judicial overhaul. It's not this it's

1:11:27not this hatred of what Israel is doing or this upset and you know difficulty with rationalizing it.

1:11:36They don't really care about Palestinians beyond and the only ones you do get are like platitudes of oh,

1:11:41you know, well, I want peace for both peoples. Tom Tom Sev said this in a recent article, you know, like a a n a nearing 90-year-old man who's lived in

1:11:50Israel since he was born. He's like, I realize that there's just not actually really that big an opposition to Netanyahu. Like Tom Tom was like a liberal two-stator most of his life.

1:12:01Yeah, Finkelestein has said that too. He said it's a it's a lunatic society. That's his his words. It's a lunatic,

1:12:08not just a lunatic state. It's a lunatic society.

1:12:14There's a book by uh someone I I bring up a lot, Tik Voni Parnas. She she fought in the Hagenas actually the Pal she was in the Palmach. I figured out

1:12:22after our last episode, Chris, but she has a book about liberal Zionism and like her big thesis in it or one of the things she reiterates time and time

1:12:29again is when it comes to Palestinian rights and when it comes to Israeli expansionism, so say like settlements and just the brutality required to

1:12:37uphold an ethnosremacist project, the left and the right in Israel are in lock step. It's just when it comes to say

1:12:44disagreements pertaining to religion or like taxes or economics then you know like they'll have their disagreements but when it comes to building those

1:12:53settlements the left has or the labor uh in in Israel has played their role built

1:13:00, 13 minutestons of settlements done nothing to dismantle them done nothing to really freeze the process they just pay lip service to a a potential two-state

1:13:09solution which they don't even really want to bring about in the first place.

1:13:13Uh I as I mentioned the other day, I think Bean said, "I won't wink at the settlers." Talking about as in what had happened before because towards the end

1:13:21of Rabbine's first uh prime minister prime ministership in Israel, Yeetszac Rabbine 1974 to7 the settlement building

1:13:30accelerated massively. They hid it under this uh log logic called stockade and watchtower is what their generation was basically referred to of. They were

1:13:38like, "Right, we're going to build a set amount of settlements for military purposes." I think there's a Chumsky quote about how it's all [ __ ] about the Jordan Valley and stuff that it's

1:13:47not really defensible and the idea you'd need settlements or that they'd operate in any way to do that is farical.

1:13:54But in the context of Yeah. Like um I in the context of this this the labor

1:14:01movement did did all of this. Yeah. You know, the labor movement was happy with this. This distinction is a fictitious

1:14:08thing to appease liberal Zionists in the West and make them feel better about supporting an ethnosuppreist project,

1:14:16but it doesn't reflect a reality. You know what I wanted to ask um unless you guys have anything else to add on that is is

1:14:23the idea of the Israeli left because I wrote that down and I mean obviously we're not talking about liberals,

1:14:28liberal Zionists. There are anti-ionist activists in Israel. There's like a thousand of them.

1:14:36Yeah. I mean the the I mean if you if you want to go through any of these these groups and like um their significance in Israel, their the

1:14:44perception of them in Israel and I mean what I've talked about recently a little bit is the the the sort of fetishization

1:14:52from liberal Zionists outside of Israel of the significance of these groups and of the well there are Israelis that do protest the government when if they're

1:15:01not talking about the Israelis that protest it because they want better healthcare or the host Then we're talking about people um I

1:15:10mean in such marginal spaces and in such you know in im um persecuted politically

1:15:19spaces that um when we talk about the Israeli left it's mostly this farcical idea that the society is redeemable and

1:15:27can be changed within and can be um affected from anything other than outside pressure. And I think that uh that's another thing that's frustrating

1:15:35to watch the Israeli left like the like Mat Pen I guess or or groups like that like the revolutionary socialist anti-ionists.

1:15:43Um you know to to point to them and you know conjure up this image of oh those are the groups that are going to change Israeli society. But if you look at what

1:15:52they stand for they stand for anti-Zionism. So if they were to actually achieve their goals, like the enacting of an anti-ionist worldview,

1:16:00, 16 minutesspecifically in Israel, then what makes Israel Israel would cease to exist and it wouldn't really be Israel as we conceive it. It would be an anti-ionist

1:16:09state. The thing that makes Israel so pernicious is that it's Zionist. It's it's ethnosuppreist and exclusionary. Uh

1:16:16Tik Voni Pras, the lady I just mentioned not too long ago, she was part of Matzpen. I believe she was like a socialist. I think she was a trot

1:16:23troskist, but um a rare L. No, I'm kidding. Uh she [snorts]

1:16:29um she was like an anti-ionist. So if a liberal Zionist wanted to point to her and and enact her worldview, then Israel

1:16:38as we understand it would cease to exist.

1:16:42Yeah. I mean, this is probably something that I didn't talk about all that much last week. Kahana the I I I I really you

1:16:51know I I don't Kahana is like effectively a Jewish Nazi a Judeo-Nazi I don't think there's any other description of the man the things he believed in the things he thought his

1:16:59rhetoric but I think Kahana is the end point of Zionism because his thing is just we cannot coexist with a Zionist

1:17:07project to exist as what it means to be a Jewish state I mean sure his conception about it being a haka state is not necessarily that popular and

1:17:14renaming it the Kingdom of Judea rather than Israel is probably not that appealing to the vast majority. But ultimately, in order to ensure

1:17:22demographic dominance, it is very clear that Israel is not going to give out this two-state. It is very clear that the international community do not give

1:17:29a [ __ ] about achieving it that they will pay nothing more than platitudes of saying we need a negotiated peace with both sides because it is very obvious

1:17:37which side will not make any kind of meaningful peace. And in the context of this, it doesn't surprise me that when

1:17:45Kahana came to power in 1984, he got 25,000 votes. Now Kahanists like Bengavia and those around him like Shass

1:17:54United Torah Judaism when there was an analysis after Kahana was kicked out of power in the 1990s. They found that

1:18:02mostly his voters just went to Shass and United Torah Judaism. Now they have the outlet of Otsma Yehuda. And sure, Benabe is not the most popular person in the in

1:18:10the entirety of Israel, but let's be frank, he's enacting policies that are so insane that when Kahana tried it,

1:18:17people people got upset. When he tried to bring through a bill to execute Palestinians, people like, "No, no, no,

1:18:23you can't do that in the Knesset." Now there's no big fuss. There's no big stink. The discussion of voluntary migration is a euphemism. There's a

1:18:31great film about Nuremberg. Uh, I'll put it in the description, but I can't I've forgotten the name. I've mentioned it a load of conspiracy it's called and

1:18:40they're like talking it's like it's not a documentary or anything but it's about Nuremberg and it's like uh all the key figures at Nuremberg and one of them

1:18:47keeps asking he's like what do you mean by transfer and one of the SS guys gets up and he goes when I kill when I shot a

1:18:53100,000 Jews was that transfer or or he says that was transfer wasn't it and you know sure Israel's not shoot it Israel

1:19:02isn't sending millions of Palestinians to death camps but it transferring them towards cultural death. They'll no longer be Palestinian.

1:19:11They're expelled. Trump literally said they won't return. And if he's said it,

1:19:15and he may have changed his mind, I don't think the Israeli government has.

1:19:18And there is not a major revulsion in Israel. There is not a major protest movement. They know what voluntary migration is. There is nothing voluntary

1:19:26about your entire society being destroyed and then people being expelled. The the famous slogan is Kahana was right. and they spray paint it his followers. But ultimately,

1:19:37Israeli society is seeing Kahana's vision vindicated in 2 million Palestinians potentially being expelled and they're doing nothing.

1:19:45So, yeah, I guess the um the follow-up question that I have usually is what what do you what do you do about that?

1:19:54What do you do about a society that

1:19:56like what do you do to to Nazi Germany?

1:19:58They you know that was external pressure Nazi Germany. was defeated. The denification process is um is

1:20:08interesting because it kind of didn't work. it kind of fell to the wayside as the no offense to any German viewers,

1:20:16but I mean [laughter] they know more than anything that the the at a two-year program of, you know, burning some

1:20:25books, get getting rid of some ideological tendencies in academia and doing, you know, seminars and focus

1:20:34groups about how to not want to kill a bunch of Jewish people like that. That that that's not something that just gets unlearned. definitely not through, you

1:20:42know, going to class or whatever. And um that is why like the efforts of denoxification eventually just fizzled

1:20:49out because um I mean there's a lot of reasons for it, but essentially the

1:20:56the motivation to pursue these sorts of policies was uh tied directly to power uh actual geopolitical power. Um, in the

1:21:06same way that denazification, the opposite thing happened with the government, western governments, you know, the amount of Nazi officials that

1:21:13came and actually took up positions of power. um that's not obviously denoxification but with Israel uh with

1:21:21Freudian slip with German society specifically it's like this this um there is the question of what can be

1:21:29done about it is uh is still open in a way because it's like if you ask like I think it's just everybody has to over

1:21:37time generations have to pass I guess is the right word cuz young Germans will talk a lot about that it's like don't ask you know an old German guy what he

1:21:46was up to during that time. Um, but because of generational shifts in politics, education, um, you would think

1:21:54that's the case, but Israel's youth is like, I just saw a video of a bunch of 12-year-old girls treating, you know,

1:22:01mootrich like a Taylor Swift concert.

1:22:04That's not that's not doesn't give me high hopes for the denoxipation, the slow death of uh you know, right-wing politics because it's not like it's some

1:22:11ideological, you know, implicit thing that everybody signs on to. It's like this is why your state exists. And in

1:22:19order to rationalize psychologically what you've done, what your state has done, and what you continue to do, you have to tell a lie. You have to say that

1:22:28these people aren't human. And it it runs, you know, in a lot of ways deeper than the ideology of Nazi Germany. Um,

1:22:35which is what's kind of freaky because it's like, well, what do you do? I don't that's the question that I still have not answered and I guess I don't see a lot of people asking.

1:22:45I'd say I'd say you're wrong about that.

1:22:47I'd say Germany's doing brilliantly right now. You know, nothing problematic's going on there. They haven't got a reising of the far right with all of their logic, all of their

1:22:56logic and commentary about Jewish people transposed entirely onto new uh others,

1:23:02you know, who are apparently engaged in an evil Islamo Marxist plan to take down the world. That's that's not happening.

1:23:09I think I I I I think like to give it a simplest answer so I don't keep on talking. I think it is just like abandoning capitalism and the world as

1:23:17we know it. These things, yeah, these things keep [ __ ] cropping up because in societies that are not offering human

1:23:24beings decent enough existences, there's always going to be a base of people who are just like, "Right, time to blame the other for the destruction of our

1:23:33society." Right? Like, and I'm sorry, it has to be made clear that from the outset, Zionism was wrong. It was

1:23:40racist. And to this day, it is. And you have to offer serious justice to the Palestinian people and build something

1:23:46meaningful of hopefully in my opinion you know uh like a an existence of two people in in one land. I mean there are

1:23:55some questions about you know um logistics a logistics and a lot of people who've like people act as if it's implausible that you know Israelis have been there

1:24:04for 75 years. A million Soviet Jewish people some of whom who weren't even Jewish moved there from 1990. You know,

1:24:11by the way, the Benign Manasha we talked about didn't realize this. Do you know the leader of their community believes that they're Jewish because it was revealed to him in a dream?

1:24:19That's so awesome, dude. [laughter]

1:24:21They have more of a right to live in Palestine. Palestinians.

1:24:26But yeah, I mean, I'd love to hear your answer as well as like what you Well, I was going to say that like fundamentally, it's the same thing. I uh at

1:24:34at the risk of sounding like too much of a an annoying Marxist,

1:24:38I was going to say like the dennazification efforts in u Germany and even like the disillusion of like the apartheid structure in South Africa. If

1:24:47we look at the shortcomings of both of these uh periods, you see in South Africa the replacement of apartheid with

1:24:55a sort of neoliberal apartheid like the pockets of wealth that were owned by um the small white minority remained with

1:25:04them and now you have like this this very powerful ruling class that that is a direct remnant of the apartheid. And

1:25:11then you look in Germany and um you know denoxification only works so far as like what Chris said, you address the fact

1:25:19that there is always going to be like this other that fascism relies on and through a capitalist mode of production

1:25:26you create you create the pretext or the pretense for people to be able to point to that this small group of people or whoever it may be even if it's not like

1:25:34the ruling class. It often isn't. Uh it's it's a scapegoat. So you create those pret pretenses and uh without like

1:25:42the delu the the disillusion um of like a capitalist structure. I

1:25:48don't see how desionization efforts don't take a similar path.

1:25:57Sorry the reason I started smiling is you seen the video of have you seen the video of Julius MMA the leader of the economic freedom fighters?

1:26:04Have you seen it Noah? He said yesterday he he was like he's like America are going to ban me. Why do I care? I'll go to Nigeria. Why would I want to go to

1:26:13America, a country that makes you eat burgers and makes you fat? And then [laughter] he goes when I can have jolaf rice. And then he goes, "Yum, yum, yum."

1:26:20It's a brilliant video. But I think that that's by the way also just like that that point there like people act as if

1:26:28and maybe you can make a link between the ceasefire as like nothing ceasefire is much further than liberation than the abolition of apartheid in South Africa

1:26:36but like the failure of apartheid South Africa is literally the enshrinment of private property that loads of people who accumulated huge amounts of wealth

1:26:44and it's funny when people [ __ ] talk about a one state and they're like where's everyone going to live instead of like actually probably the more complex questions are what do you do about Israeli society?

1:26:55Who's going to own what? But also, what do you do about someone, right, who owned a weapons company like Elbert

1:27:03Systems or who made a surveillance company? Their money is entirely reliant on the Palestinians off the back.

1:27:11Mhm. Like billions and billions of dollars that has to be redistributed, taken off them instantaneously. you're looking for the money, go and take it from these [ __ ]

1:27:21who've done these horrible things.

1:27:23Because that's a whole business. That's an entire business, a set of businesses is is creating surveillance tech,

1:27:30weapons, and testing them on the Palestinians that Israel oppresses and then selling that, you know, tested

1:27:37equipment, surveillance technology, AI to other oppressive governments. So if you dissolve the apartheid structure in Israel, all of the sudden that market,

1:27:48you know, potentially ceases to exist.

1:27:51It's seemingly what Epstein was doing with, according to drop site news, this is what Epstein was doing. He sold surveillance tech developed during the

1:28:00, 28 minutesfirst and second interifard to the Ivory Coast so they could manipulate their population and do an authoritarian crackdown. Like insane.

1:28:09Yeah. Insane.

1:28:11It really is. And so I think like ultimately it is a major societal change with a genuine truth and reconciliation that is major justice for Palestinians,

1:28:22Yeah. Insane reparations and repatriation.

Chapter 7: Noah Breaks His Silence on Ethan Klein Lawsuit

1:28:25Are you happy to break your silence about the uh the lawsuit situation? Are you able to? Yeah. I mean, no, I'm not getting sued.

1:28:34I've never I'm not I've ne I was never getting sued. I guess that's where like the confusion is cuz cuz that according to him like you you were about to

1:28:42[ __ ] lose your house. You were you were back to the ropes.

1:28:46Yeah, I I wasn't aware that people cuz I thought I made I made it pretty clear in my video that he hadn't sued me and he but I guess because he continues to tell well cuz he sued those other people.

1:28:57People are assuming he sued me.

1:28:59But no, he just spent like three or four months kind of like harassing me and telling me he was going to take all my money and and like make me you know,

1:29:07poor and make me a like, you know, on the street begging or whatever.

1:29:10[clears throat] And then [laughter]

1:29:11you can move in with me if that happens, by the way.

1:29:14Oh, yeah. [ __ ] yeah. Okay. I hope you choose me then. [ __ ] it. Um, [laughter] that'd be that'd be a party. That'd be so sick.

1:29:20Sorry to your girlfriend, though. I'd be taking all her time.

1:29:23It's all good, man. It's all good. She could sleep on the couch. Yeah.

1:29:26Yeah. Cool. I I mean, I guess it's like I kind of knew that you weren't getting sued, but it's obviously like it was there was like I can imagine, you know,

1:29:35the Iranians have like a clock that says this is the amount of time until Israel is destroyed. In his house, he had like a 24-hour countdown. He was like, "Noah

1:29:43Samson, retract your video." And it wasn't just like a little bit of like,

1:29:47"Oh, you're getting sued." I remember like a huge amount of podcast episodes.

1:29:51And also a [ __ ] like Mutahar got involved as well. Some ordinary gamers Yeah, I know multiple pretty big

1:29:59YouTubers that he reached out to uh that he said, "I will pay your legal fees if you join in on this lawsuit." People that I talked about in my in my video,

1:30:08YouTubers who backed a genocide. So,

1:30:10yeah, it was a coordinated effort. And um I mean, he p he paid a lawyer to write a cease and desist um to telling me to take down the video or

1:30:19else or they were going to sue or I mean it was just a scare tactic.

1:30:23Yeah. At the time though, I'm I'm completely unfamiliar with, you know,

1:30:26legal pro proceedings, uh, defamation law and stuff like that. So, I I mean, I hired a lawyer for, um, sort of analysis

1:30:34on a lot of these things. I talked to a lot of lawyers and it was kind of a stressful time for sure cuz it's like, I don't I mean, if you know, if someone wants to legally harass you until you

1:30:43don't have enough money to pay lawyers and then you have to settle, they can do that. That's just how we saw him do it.

1:30:47The American and Yeah. I mean, he is doing that right now. And that's another thing we can talk about is is his just completely cowardly shift to be like,

1:30:56"Okay, I can't sue him because he's just expressing a political opinion and I can't sue these other people cuz they're just watching my content, but they're

1:31:04they're women, I guess. So I I'm going to sue all of them at once and and then make a big fuss about it." Um, and yeah,

1:31:11I mean, like really terrorize their lives, for lack of a better term,

1:31:14because of the financial, you know, he has multiple businesses. They have their podcasts, their

1:31:21just sicko weird fan base that like still, you know, they're all like 24 year old girls that are also now liberal Zionists and extremely parasocial. It's

1:31:30a very demonic place to like exist. But at the same time,

1:31:34that financial consistency allows you to theoretically legally harass people. But he did just lose that um you know big

1:31:42defamation lawsuit against uh what's his name?

1:31:45Kavanaaugh. Ryan Kavanagh. settled. He settled. Yeah, he settled. He settled to pay. I have an insider source that has informed me that he had to pay. I

1:31:54can't give you the figure, but an exorbitant a lot. It's a lot. And so,

1:31:58it's something that you could theoretically,

1:32:02you know, tally on to the idea that he's trying to financially harass people and that it won't last as long. But in the case of my lawsuit, it was just a it was

1:32:09just a scare tactic. It was a political effort to um delete criticism of Zionism. and that you know he doesn't work for the Israeli

1:32:18government but the Israeli government funds projects like that across the world in order to stifle criticism of Zionism. So it's the same fundamental

1:32:25structure and he was participating in it in his own for free, you know? I mean to be paid for it like he wasn't even paid by the government to to act like that.

1:32:34So that's what's uh so troubling. But yeah, I mean he's a

1:32:38I don't like he's a [ __ ] That's the whole thing. He's a huge and it's a gendered insult, but it it's completely um it's just a it's pathetic.

1:32:47Like it's very sad watching him say he's a weak weak fragile man. insult women, call them [ __ ] be so fragile,

1:32:54all in or for this ultimate goal. I mean, people are have been speculating that it's to make Hassan pay these other creators

1:33:01uh to help their legal funds. So then he would be financially harming Assan,

1:33:05which is just insanity. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

1:33:07Using these people as like as like, you know, financial pond in some weird psychological game that only he is playing. Like it's he's obsessed.

1:33:14Yeah. Did he ever actually like refute any of the actual arguments you made like pertaining to actual political issues? Because that's something that I

1:33:22noticed with him. Like he is he won't he won't talk about Chris. He won't well if he is talking about Chris and he's like showing a video where Chris is present.

1:33:30He'll literally just skip over his part.

1:33:33He'll be like I'm going to go to this other person. Chris is saying a whole bunch of gobbly goo. We don't need any.

1:33:38I'm going to go to the woman to call her a Nazi and a [ __ ] And I'm going to get my wife to call her that. Yeah.

1:33:42What? If anyone's watching this and hasn't seen it yet, Chris has a video covering um Ethan's response to your

1:33:49response to your stream with um Madison from the channel Cruel World Happy Mind.

1:33:54I forget if that's her name, but to her and um Ethan reacted to it in an in an amazing way. Let's see. So, you're

1:34:02talking about other [ __ ] right now right now. Now, I know a lot of you guys have trouble listening to Chris Kungsler and

1:34:10um and don't worry, I've I've watched this and no offense to Chris, but he doesn't [clears throat] really have anything interesting to say. So, in the

1:34:17interest of sparing us all, um I'm going to just skip over what he has to say.

1:34:23I really that really to be honest that was something that really irked me. And the reason it irked me so much is because I know you spoke to Madison as

1:34:31well, Isaac, but I spoke to her. Madison never once purported to be like an expert on Palestine. She has done two

1:34:39live streams in her life, one being with Ethan Klein and one being with me. They spent their time going, "Look, she wasn't very good at this, was she?" And

1:34:46it's like, "Sorry, she first of all did not come from this position of wanting to be expert on Palestine. She's someone who's like, "Hey, I actually care about

1:34:54Palestine and I'd like to talk about it more." And I I think that ultimately especially for someone who makes like

1:35:02content that everything is political realistically, you know, even even like the I don't know the the YouTube shorts

1:35:09uh Minecraft reels that I see all the time, those are political uh in that they waste my time, but [laughter]

1:35:16they pull you away from being an anti-ionist. Zionist entity. [laughter]

1:35:22They've been they've been sent to trick me. But just on the topic of like reaching out to like a wide a wider audience and like showing people, hey,

1:35:31this Palestine stuff is important and is good to talk about, like that's a good thing. Like I'm sorry. It it is a good

1:35:38thing and I'm glad I did it. The only thing that has been a terrible [ __ ]

1:35:43feeling and obviously not really a stress in my life, not trying to take away from this, is once again this thing of watching his cultlike fans go,

1:35:49"Financially ruin someone. Financially ruin someone for me. financially ruin someone so we can get catharsis about the bad woman who you know stole from

1:35:58the mi Mr. Ethan Klein and it's just like oh god how do you have the audacity like how do you have the audacity to call

1:36:06yourself a leftist and and I think it's a problem of almost the era of red pill content you were [ __ ] talking about.

1:36:13The reason that Ethan portrayed himself as a leftist was just cuz he spoke about really bad men on the internet being objectively really bad and it's easy to

1:36:23look good when you know you talk down to the worst guy. Being anti-rightwing is not being leftwing by any means. And

1:36:30that that's kind of been unearthed in the last few years, I feel like, especially. But in the case of Ethan,

1:36:36it's just uh I mean I I I really don't even like talking about him. And that's part of why like when I see he'll do

1:36:44stuff and I'll be like, man, that would be a fun video to make cuz he's so stupid. He's just so [ __ ] stupid. And it's such an easy thing to use to like show people what Zionism looks like. But

1:36:53then I'm like, well, his fans, the only people left in his fan base are parasocial, sickopantic Zionist freaks,

1:37:02like some combination of that. Like liberal Zionists or people who just apathetic. They don't give a [ __ ] They give a [ __ ] when it's time to say, "Oh, he's pro Palestine. Oh, he did this. Oh,

1:37:10he did that." But when it comes down to it, when it comes down to their actual politics, they do not care at all. And an audience like that that is still to

1:37:18this day willing to financially support a creator that is perpetuating liberal Zionism is um yeah that that's I don't

1:37:26want to say it's a lost cause but it is there are other places um a lot of times that I think are potentially more worthy

1:37:33to focus unless things are just so clearly heinous that it's that it's um that you have to touch on it and it's easy. But I don't know. Well, I bring up

1:37:40his avoidance of like dealing with your political arguments because Chris is is someone who has made copious amounts of

1:37:48genuinely thought out great criticism of him on a political level. I've criticized him politically. I've talked about how he, you know, peru perpetuated

1:37:57the lie that, you know, during the Nagba, the Arab leaders told the Palestinians to flee. And that's a

1:38:04that's a right-wing Israeli myth that's been debunked by Zionists themselves like Schlommo Benami. It's been debunked by Benny Morris. Like this is this is a

1:38:13lie. But he never retracted that statement. Um he'll go on and say that Palestinians in Israel their plight is

1:38:23merely analogous to how minorities in America are treated.

1:38:27It's a country that exists. It has borders. It has 20% of its population are Palestinians. I believe that um they

1:38:35do have virtually equal rights there. Although there's a lot of social um

1:38:43much like racism is in in America where it's like technically on the books there's not but obviously there's a lot of room to improving the situation for

1:38:50Palestinians who are living in Israel proper which is completely untrue. There are discriminatory laws in Israel that will meet the definition of apartheid.

1:39:00, 39 minutesWhat is apartheid? It's a it's a non-exhaustive list of inhumane acts committed against one group of people by one racial group that seeks to dominate

1:39:08the other group and they commit that act with the goal of preserving that structure. That is something that happens in Israel.

1:39:17But Ethan just boils it down to okay there it's just the way that minorities in America are treated. It's exactly the same which is not the truth. We have called him out on this so many times.

1:39:28We've made great arguments against him on a political level, not nothing personal. I I don't I don't believe Chris to be the guy who sent skulls to his house, unless I'm wrong. [laughter]

1:39:36But um he'll he has there's a concerted effort with Ethan to only respond to the fluff, never get to the root of the issue. And even when he dealt with you,

1:39:47like he didn't actually combat any of your arguments. He took a he took issue with your thumbnail. He in his stream he said explicitly that he would

1:39:56he because I was like he's not going to respond. He said I will respond in the court basically in court. Like you're going to get sued and [laughter] I'm

1:40:04going to respond to each argument in court. And I was like okay well then I already win cuz you're not going to sue me. So this is like ridiculous. But then he did the same thing

1:40:12with you guys. He just completely ignored it. And I mean there's se there's a material motivation to not alienate Nate more of his audience by

1:40:21showing them places where you prove him to be like a repulsive Zionist. Like that's obviously against his material interest. They run businesses. They're trying to make money.

1:40:30At the same time like you you that is part of why it's so easy for these people to cuz they just don't they don't know and they don't care. Like when

1:40:38you're that parasocial, you're not a serious political actor. You aren't going to go seek out the critique and listen to it in good faith and try and understand what we have been saying.

1:40:48You're just going to watch the stream and you're gonna see him dunking on this uh like this creator who made her first

1:40:56essentially like explicitly political video about Palestine um in a very minor part of her video in an argument and you're going to verbally berate her and

1:41:04call her names and say she's a Nazi. Uh and it's going to feel so cathartic for you cuz you like Ethan Klein. that's the extent of your politics which is not

1:41:12political right but I mean I think there are a lot of actual liberal Zionist arguments that are being perpetuated by this person but yeah when it comes to

1:41:20like actual criticism this is just yeah creators by and large a lot of times these drama people these old guard

1:41:28creators cannot respond to criticism so they ignore it because they're trying to make money or they ignore it because in his case specifically I think he is a

1:41:34very fragile person like he is a very refuses to reckon with the fact that he might be a like disgusting

1:41:42anti-Palestinian racist and upholding these structures with his rhetoric and it's much easier to turn away to turn to

1:41:50your IDF wife and hear whatever she has to say about it to to back you up which I'm sure will prove that you're not racist when a racist does that

1:41:58[laughter] like it's it's it's just uh I don't know defer to the writer of Raala she's his character reference you're [laughter] speaking over IDF

1:42:05voices I guess I don't know it's uh it's really unfortunate it. Um,

1:42:10but yeah, it's just like you threaten to sue for so long. You don't sue cuz you know you can't sue. That whole thing is a charade. That whole thing is we're going to get two or three episodes out

1:42:19of this. We're going to, you know, dig up dirt on somebody, find his ex, and have her say things that you didn't say,

1:42:27and do all sorts of like bizarre, you know, weird, slimy tactics to try and attack someone's character rather than

1:42:34defend your pro-Israel positions because, you know, you can't defend that [clears throat] because Israel's committing a genocide and you support it. So that's my

1:42:42It's really It's really interesting cuz that was like frankly outrageous the whole thing of like him bringing up someone from your personal life, but

1:42:50also it's really funny because it is the classic right-wing or like lived out alleged left-winger tactic of like look

1:42:58how much fun Hassan is having at your expense whilst he purports to be a socialist doing this. Look how much fun

1:43:05of woman protector Noah is having at your expense. He's actually the worst guy in the world. He's not what he says

1:43:13he is. And like realistically then all of these people get their enjoyment by you know looking at the figure who have

1:43:20excess and punishing them like that's really how it like it factors into this politics like these people just look for it.

1:43:27It's an it's like I mean not to be debate lord but it is an ad homonym ultimately. It is attacking the character of someone not their argument.

1:43:35It's attacking trying to tear someone down in the eyes of an audience so that you can generate all this controversy about it without actually dealing with

1:43:42the substance. And it's for people that are a like engaged with politics. It's very clear to see. But these people just aren't.

1:43:50It's an appeal to like perceived hypocrisy with you. It's like, oh, look, he he is a feminist, but he's actually also like

1:43:59Jeffrey Epstein or whatever the [ __ ] he tried to get you for. [laughter] He he was pushing it like crazy. And then when you actually listen to it, it's like the most benign [ __ ] ever. Um

1:44:07yeah, his uh producer Dan um said, I think the quote is like, "I wouldn't go denying October 7th rapes Noah given your history."

1:44:17So very clearly implying that I'm a rapist. I didn't know that.

1:44:19And then when the person came on to talk about what she was going to talk about,

1:44:25she like explicitly denied any sort of abuse or wrongdoing in that regard. And it was very much like they had to issue

1:44:33a you know cover their ass legal apology to say uh you know at that stream like okay uh we are not accusing him of

1:44:40anything but in the prior stream they explicit. I mean very very implied. But I I I can't sit here and sue people that say things like that for defamation or

1:44:49whatever cuz I I just I don't know. I don't I don't have the money. I don't have the time. I don't I don't want to get into a prolonged legal battle with someone like that. But I mean, that's the kind of stuff that's like,

1:44:58you know, it's it's very um anti-

1:45:02uh Yeah. I don't know. It's just it's just very dishonest and it's frustrating.

1:45:07Yeah. I I I think it's also like a horrifying part of American society and to an extent British society. It's not quite as bad here, but just like suing people constantly. Like I'm I'm sorry.

1:45:19It goes right up to the [ __ ]

1:45:20president suing the BBC over editing a clip of him to make him look slightly worse. And you know, like I'm no

1:45:28defender of the BBC, but of all of the things that they should be held to account for, that is minimal in my opinion. But like just this latigious

1:45:35nature of just, yeah, I'm going to sue everyone. I'm going to attack them. I'm going to not bother and deal with anything that they say. It's just Americans. It's just repugnant.

1:45:46Burger and lawsuit.

1:45:48Mhm. That's America right there. Land of the free.

1:45:51Yeah. And it's just it's so inongruous with being a leftist like spending your time doing that. Like I'd rather talk about politics or something to that

1:45:58effect, you know, and like challenge someone on the basis of what they say and what they do. And it's a funny thing about like

1:46:06kind of the position I came from versus the position I find myself in. Like when you learn about academia, you you're not told read the Israeli perspective in

1:46:14academia. Sure, you read Israeli authors. You learn about what their narratives are, but it's not like you are learning to counter things. You are

1:46:22just learning about it for the sake of trying to produce new knowledge about something meaningful, you know. And I think that like in in in in in many

1:46:30ways, this is an interesting aspect of the content that we've ended up like we all end up creating online that so much of it is just combating people because

1:46:38the the problem of social media and this is a general thing. This is almost like an impossible problem of the medium is people want things to be combed and

1:46:47fought against. And so people are always going to be able to do it in really problematic and horrifying ways to appeal to their audience. Even if they

1:46:55built an audience like Ethan did off the basis of I am the defender of free speech. Yeah.

1:47:00, 47 minutesThey don't give people don't give a [ __ ] There's a thing about like the Reagan and the news that I once read and it's like well you know the news thought they'd take down Reagan by showing a

1:47:08scandal but the thing is is people didn't love Reagan in spite of the scandals they loved him because of the scandals. And I think unfortunately a

1:47:17thing you increasingly realize is a lot of people with big audiences unless the scandal is like pedophile is pretty much the only one that's like damning now. I mean, Andrew Tate's gotten away with it,

1:47:27but unless troll.

1:47:30Yeah. I mean, being the pedo troll, that that's a that's a winner. That's that's a Reddit account.

1:47:35Former Reddit account or I mean, it is his Reddit [snorts and laughter] account. Yeah.

1:47:38Yeah. The artist formerly known as Pedo Troll. [laughter]

1:47:43I'm a Redditor from Israel and this is my account.

1:47:47Yeah. Just the um I was considering cuz I was like Yeah. with when it comes to politics, like winning or

1:47:55successfully defending yourself in court from defamation is not a win. Like that's not that's not some kind of thing to like spend time and money celebrating

1:48:03because it just means that this person did not have the grounds to sue you. It doesn't mean that they defamed you. You have to do a separate thing and that

1:48:11costs another tens of thousands of dollars. And that's I mean that's not like initially I was like okay what if this went to court and became a big

1:48:18thing the new Johnny Depp Amber Heard and it was like a huge fun thing where we had to you know cite the ICJ at Los

1:48:26Angeles you know civil court so that we could say well they are committing a genocide well he did use this rhetoric to support it that would be kind of fun

1:48:33but then I was like no actually you know very quickly was like that's not like a very productive avenue of politics um as

1:48:40fun as it might be to go in court on camera. But um yeah, just just just silly. Just very silly.

1:48:47And also I mean the case of Johnny Depp Amber Herd basically proves that there can be unequivocal evidence in your favor and you will still get [ __ ] by

1:48:54the American legal system. Like genuinely that that story is a madness and it always surprises me that people react so negatively when you can look at

1:49:02uh her narrative and uh the things that are said uh and like what the British court found about it and it's like Jesus

1:49:11Christ like how are you sitting here defending a 50-year-old man who was dating a 20-year-old and just like evidently abusing her. And I think I guess something else we mentioned we

Chapter 8: Kaceytron Coerced Into Compliance By Ethan Klein

1:49:19want to talk about is have you seen the Casey Tron apology video?

1:49:23I did watch it. Yeah, that was um very hostage. Free the hostages, bro. She was like literally [laughter]

1:49:31on on like so like gun to the head kind of thing. It was crazy. It was crazy. Where's your yellow ribbon, Noah? Where's your yellow ribbon? [laughter]

1:49:42I need that. She should have been wearing one. That might have made it go down better or something. Oh god,

1:49:48what a He probably would have sued her again.

1:49:50Oh yeah, for making a mockery of [snorts] Israeli suffering or whatever.

1:49:54Yeah, it's it's that was I mean for anyone that watch it it does I think make him look like a psychopath. Him

1:50:02reacting to her apology and celebrating and gloating about this person who very clearly was reading a legal script to

1:50:10avoid financial penalties. Doesn't believe these things cuz how could you?

1:50:14Obviously, this guy's a [ __ ] loser that's trying to legally harass and abuse everyone and with a complete misunderstanding of like copyright

1:50:22infringement even and in contradiction with his history of, you know,

1:50:26supposedly fighting copyright, which that even isn't necessarily the truth. I think Bad Pan has done some good videos about specifically that narrative on uh the lack of,

1:50:37you know, the the sort of false narrative perpetuated by him being like a free speech warrior. I don't think he ever really was. But in contrast to his

1:50:45image, you know, that still is acceptable.

1:50:47Didn't Didn't Ethan say he was going to sue him, too? Remember, he was like,

1:50:50"I'm going to I'm coming for you to like extradite him or what?" [laughter]

1:50:54He's he's fled to Uruguay. He's fled to Uruguay now.

1:50:58A lot of people still think still think I live with Bad Empanada in Argentina.

1:51:03Oh my god. I remember you posted an Instagram story, right?

1:51:06Yeah, I did. Instagram story. Um he [laughter] he actually sent me some some videos from around like Argentina to

1:51:15post. Banana did so I could post them and then a photo of him at like a bar like at night like uh and like I and

1:51:23then I I I was moving at the time so I posted a photo of me with all the stuff in the background with boxes and stuff and I was like Argentina bound. Let's get it. This is

1:51:32so exciting. And and of course they're all like oh he's fleeing. He's fleeing to go hang out [laughter] with his best friend, CPS chairman, uh, and avoid

1:51:39getting sued. And I was like, "You guys are so [ __ ] stupid." But it was fun. That was a fun one. Yeah.

1:51:44But I still get comments today like fleeing like a little cockroach in Argentina could come back. Oh man. I mean,

1:51:52are you serious? the with the Casey Tron stuff, Ethan tried to make it seem as though there was like absolutely no coercion whatsoever when

1:52:01it came to her settlement statement. But like just what was it a week ago, maybe 10 days prior to when she posted that apology video, she did a video, she

1:52:09posted another video and basically said like I'm very worried that uh I'm going to this this case is going to get stretched

1:52:18out to December of next year and it's going to cost me hundreds of thousands in legal funds. I have family members um some of which are disabled and they rely

1:52:25on me and I feel as though this uh harassment campaign has been hijacked by cynical actors that want to make me kill myself. That's what she said like all on

1:52:33video and then you know a week later she's reading I infringed the copyright.

1:52:39I was completely wrong and Ethan was right. And I'm like Israel has a right to defend itself.

1:52:45Free the like how how is it that there was no coercion in that process? anyone who could just compute things on on a

1:52:54very low level can say, "Okay, this is someone who is complaining fear fearful that she was going to lose everything."

1:53:00, 53 minutesUm, and then a week later she's she's like changed her tune and Ethan was right about everything. Come on, bro.

1:53:06Yeah, that gloating stream was not for normal people. That was for his fans cuz normal people see that and see her you hear her situation. You hear how she,

1:53:14you know, how that story changed. I haven't seen the video you're talking about, but that's sad. I mean, I am I'm aware it's like very it's it's horrible.

1:53:21It's really horrible what he's done to this person and the and and the abject fear of being in that situation, but I mean, you know, when you have like Asmin

1:53:29Gold doing thumbnails with her face being like, "This [ __ ] does like she's getting what she deserves or whatever when she's crying." I mean, these are

1:53:36just cynical right-wing fascist freaks that want to see,

1:53:40you know, whatever woman they can in a situation of, you know, financial ruin.

1:53:45and they want to see them crying if they feel like their creator has been emotionally slighted or whatever.

1:53:50She better be careful cuz she might get [ __ ] sepsis just being in the same thumbnail as Asmin Gold. But um yeah,

1:53:57some of the stuff that that guy's been saying lately about like the agreement with Nick Fuentes and just like the breaching the the border of Nazism, it's

1:54:05strange how Ethan hasn't condemned him because, you know, he balls to the wall over like someone like Madison from Cruel World Happy Mind who is a very

1:54:13nice person. and I've spoken just a few times to her, but she seems like a very nice person. She is a quote unquote Nazi [ __ ] but Asmin Gold is nothing. He's praised him in the past.

1:54:23Yeah. Yeah. I remember around that same time he Asmin Gold was doing like the 109 countries kicked out of like,

1:54:30you know, Nazi propaganda and and then Yeah. more recently getting more acquies to Fuentes and Yeah.

1:54:36Yeah. It's it's always telling in in people's decisions on what to cover and what to speak out on and even Exactly. PE people don't want to like

1:54:45acknowledge that um that there's more to that I think because that's also an accusation that gets weaponized a little bit like why

Chapter 9: Weaponizing Tragedies Like Sudan to Defend Israel

1:54:53don't you talk about Sudan when you're talking about Palestine you must be anti-semitic when you know in reality a lot of a lot of the people saying

1:55:02exactly that don't talk about either and actually like both what's happening in I would like Ethan to give me just two simple facts about what's going on in

1:55:09Sudan I just want him to know I want to know if he knows like who the two militias are. If you could just tell me the threeletter acronyms for both and then I'll I'll be fine.

1:55:18Chat chat GPT can definitely tell you that much. But it's just like for for years like people were would always be like, "Oh, why don't you talk about Sudan? Why don't you talk about Sudan?"

1:55:29And it's like, "Hey, I built a platform talking off Palestine on the basis of like I had an academic background in this." I'm sure over time I will improve

1:55:36at talking about different things. You know, many people are on YouTube and these platforms for a very long time before they get any kind of sizable

1:55:43audience and they've like they're older and they've had time to like kind of learn how to talk about different things. But like realistically, you know, I wrote part of my dissertation

1:55:52about Sudan. I have a far greater interest in Sudan than most [ __ ]

1:55:56people who give a [ __ ] I care far more about the wider Middle East than basically than like pretty much everyone who is online creating content about

1:56:04[ __ ] Israel. Like most of them don't know anything that has happened in the Middle East. Most people who study the Middle East don't know things about the Middle East. There's so many places in the Middle East that I don't know that

1:56:13much about. Like it's a really complex and large place. And Sudan is understanding Sudan's situation, how to

1:56:21rectify it. You know, the funny thing is people compare the famine in Sudan.

1:56:24Sudan's famine has is multifaceted and it could not be fixed easily. You know, you know what can happen in Gaza?

1:56:31There's a pre-existing aid system. It is not an advant the sure the UAE is culpable what's happening in Sudan. It's not just directly doing it and

1:56:39celebrating it. It's not a fishbowl where they are literally just keeping aid outside and then lying about it so

1:56:46more and more people can be starved by them with a huge uh lobby that allows them and enables them to do it. The UAE

1:56:53frankly is is doing these things but it's like oh no you know it it pretends it's not and it has like plausible deniability in the sense like the

1:57:01weapons are smuggled in in a very complex process. The the how gold operates is a very complex thing. Like I don't know if either of you know this

1:57:09but gold when it is mined is not actually where the gold is registered within the world. It's registered where it's first ever put on a market. And so

1:57:17in Dubai gold just basically appears there that's stolen from Africa. But like people don't give a [ __ ] about this. People don't know anything. They

1:57:24just want a quick clickbay thumbnail to basically and if they're pro- Israel,

1:57:29they'll go in and they'll say no one cares because there's no Jewish people involved.

1:57:33Well, that's the thing about you that I appreciate so much, Chris. When you make a video, you know what you're talking about and you don't really breach a topic until you can appropriately and

1:57:42responsibly cover it. And I think Ethan Klein should take a page out of your book when it comes to that because that guy should shut the complete [ __ ] up

1:57:48about anything pertaining to Palestine unless he's going to condemn Israel entirely and uncompromisingly.

1:57:55But I mean, it's kind of just a thing that's present in both your both your guys' content as well. And like realistically, we care about what we're

1:58:04talking about. Our opinions aren't so willing to change on the basis of what our audience thinks and feels about what we're saying. Like these are fixed

1:58:12values that are built up over time and thinking about something and bothering to read the news, not just like getting our opinions from [ __ ] Ahmed Fuad al-

1:58:21Katib or Hen or you know IDF wife and Noah [laughter]

1:58:27and stop stop you know stop anti-semitism healer follows it.

1:58:32Dude, I just learned that cuz of you. I couldn't believe it.

1:58:35The creator of stop anti-semitism was like using the nword on Twitter. It's just like this is not serious. Like

1:58:43people who are hyperfixated on anti-semitism are not taking any kind of bigotry serious apart from the one that allows them to defend their ethnostate, you know.

1:58:52I like I like the I mean it it is like the idea of talking about Sudan um is

1:59:00, 59 minutessomething the left should do more. But the people saying that, the loudest people saying that are Zionists. Like

1:59:07they do not care about either. they couldn't care less about the death and the um and genocide because they're

1:59:14using it to you know uh sustain the other genocide and and I I do think like there's there's there are people

1:59:21speaking out and there are people also calling in other leftists to speak on it but yeah like you're saying like if if you're not able to cover it adequately

1:59:28any of the bread tubers and any of the people that tried to cover Gaza most of them did a very bad job if not

1:59:38up to including, you know, use being a Zionist and outing themselves as Zionist. I would much rather they stay silent than cover it that [ __ ] Yeah.

1:59:46Yeah. Than than just support Israel, right? So,

1:59:49but uh I forgot where I was going with that, but yeah, I I mean, just on the topic of Palestine,

1:59:56people do not appreciate because they don't bother to care about any of the history why Palestine might be a larger

2:00:03cause. First of all, Israel has always framed itself as the center of western civilization. So there is always going

2:00:10to be a bigger desire by the right-wing and also just uh western society in of itself to cling to Israel because it's seen as the last line of our

2:00:18civilization. Whereas somewhere like Sudan, people are like nah, don't care about it's just uh Africans doing African things in the opinion of too

2:00:25many people's minds. Um, and in the case of Palestine, they can just in uh like inflict that specifically on Palestinians and be like they're doing

2:00:33the monstrous things. But also in the 1970s and 80s, the Palestinian National Cause did a very good job at putting out

2:00:42their message in English thanks to a competent amount of people and also linking their cause with other

2:00:50liberation struggles, particularly Algeria, but most importantly Mandela in South Africa. Yeah,

2:00:59we all know that struggle. So yeah.

2:01:00, 1 minuteMhm. I mean ultimately Israel is is a it's a settler colonial state in its frontier stage. Like this is an

2:01:08anacronistic system that should have no place in our modern world. When it comes to Sudan, it's of I mean entirely horribly uh tragic situation.

2:01:19It's it's it's a war of of power influences and resource grabs. Like this is something that happens and shouldn't

2:01:27happen. But I mean, it's uh something worth delineating there. Not that not to say like one is worse or one is better or whatever. They're both horrible and

2:01:35people die uh tragically in both scenarios.

2:01:39But the reason that people speak so much about Israel is because it just is anacronistic. We left that in the past

2:01:46like hundreds of years ago. And Israel is the only active settler colony today.

2:01:52This is why people speak about it. I was think Oh, go ahead, Chris.

2:01:59No, no, no. I was just going to say maybe some people would say Western Sahara, but don't know enough about it. Northern Cypress maybe, too. Yeah,

2:02:06but sorry. No, please go ahead.

2:02:08Oh, you're good. Um, the Tabernacle, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with him. He's a YouTube creator, like a left-leaning creator. Seems cool, like a cool guy.

2:02:17Yeah, he made a video responding to that critique. Why don't you talk about Sudan? And I liked his answer of it. um

2:02:24the lessons drawn from cover covering settler colonialism in Palestine. Um

2:02:31genocide in Gaza, the structures there as leftists, we identify structures and extrapolate them out to other places.

2:02:38That structure being built up in the mind of some of a viewer upon being applied to or upon engaging with information about Sudan, that also

2:02:46applies. The same structure learning about it and learning to try and dismantle it um exists. And uh I think

2:02:53it makes a lot of sense to say that like there's not there's there's no way you can be an anti-imperialist and talk about anti-imperialism and not have that

2:03:02message also um spread outwards and ingrained into viewers. And um but at the same time ultimately like yeah I

2:03:09think more western creators should do more internationalist politics. And I the thing about Palestine is that this

2:03:17has been uh you know a vehicle for that political transformation for a lot of people. And so um yeah as the gaze looks

2:03:26outward from you know treats in the first world to seeing how this entire system subjugates billions of people

2:03:33then you you know your eyes open a little bit to that and you become more involved and you care more about um you know humanity and uh I think that's like

2:03:42yeah that's worth keeping in mind because um the trai the trajectory for a lot of people um from seeing what

2:03:49Israel's done has created a yeah a very large ideological shift 100%. That's something I focused a lot too on in my

2:03:57work is just um the emphasis on how specifically the capitalist structure in the west whether it be you know uh lzair

2:04:05or social democracy as well uh puts the third world at risk like those supply chains are exploitative unequal exchange

2:04:14takes place all of the time neoc colonialism by way of um you know our monetary institutions like the world bank and the IMF this has demonstrable

2:04:23effects on the developing world and the my biggest frustration I'd say with like

2:04:29the western left is the hyperfocus and hyperfocus to the point of exclusion of any other topic when it comes to maybe

2:04:37like social safety nets and you know like you said treats treatites I believe they're called. [gasps] Um I think it's

2:04:45that is at least for me where my work has has taken me lately is just focusing on that because again it is all connected and you know gains when it

2:04:54comes to uh welfare and um uh things of that of that sort in the first world.

2:05:00, 5 minutesNot that they shouldn't be strived for obviously but we should try and establish more equitable supply lines,

2:05:06production lines and it shouldn't happen at the expense of people in the developing world. Zoron is, I think,

Chapter 10: Zohran Mamdani & The Disappointing Western Left

2:05:14just one example of this where um the idea that we can strive for uh

2:05:23benefits for working people like a workingclass focused politics that can exist at the same time as anti-imperialist ideology. They should

2:05:31coexist. But the reason anti-imperialists are so critical of Zoron is because he has abandoned or reneged and gone back on a lot of the

2:05:40rhetoric uh about anti-imperialism about Palestine that his position would be so

2:05:47perfectly um attuned to shifting perceptions and using that political platform and being

2:05:54a political actor to affect positive change in New York of all people. New York is like a huge city. a lot of like

2:06:02a hugely diverse city, a huge working a lot of working people and a lot of um Zionists as well and and the potential

2:06:10to shift the um political like needle in America. That's the best possible place you could do to start. And so when when

2:06:18it's kind of weighed these two things when people are talking about Zoron,

2:06:20like oh, if you don't like Zoron, if you criticize Zoron, then you must not want working people to have benefits. And if

2:06:28I think the main critique is like why is he giving up on the other politics that he could continue he could um truly push

2:06:37for radical politics and and it's as simple as just rhetoric in a lot of ways but his rhetoric like when he can't do

2:06:45the bare minimum of continuing anti-imperialist pro Palestine rhetoric and where he has to you know hire

2:06:52Zionists employ Zionists continue to support them continue to allow their rhetoric continue to allow anti-semitism

2:06:59crisis framing with regards to protests around synagogues that are supporting Israel. When he does these things, you know, [snorts] it there has to be a line somewhere and it has to be, you know,

2:07:10some kind of conclusion for people to understand that there's a reason he's doing that and that's because he's a Democrat in America and and that's the

2:07:17unfortunate reality. But um it does feel weird to be like, "Oh, uh like when people say they don't like Zoron for that reason, you know, the liberal

2:07:26tendency is to say, oh, so you want poor people in New York to starve." And it's like, "Well, no, that's actually that's actually not a thing that I want."

2:07:33Well, I mean, you've clearly not heard of the Muslim concept of takia, where you can lie for a political purpose that he's actually going to institute Islamo jihad soon.

2:07:44That is true. I forgot about [laughter]

2:07:45the other side of that you should have bought you should have borne that in mind. But never mind.

2:07:50You know that girl that you that girl you fight with on Twitter all or on TikTok all the time?

2:07:54Yeah, that opinionated girl. I like she put out a video. She's like, "Yeah,

2:07:57Zoron's staterun grocery stores. They uh they're not selling pork. They're not selling alcohol. Where [laughter] do you think they Where do you think he got those rules?"

2:08:10I think I I I think I like I definitely totally agree with you. And the thing that terrifies me the most about all of this is just kicking the can down the

2:08:19road and like all these like the Biden election in 2020, right? The reason people voted for him and what a lot of people said was we want normaly. We want

2:08:27to go back to normal because some I I'm really interested in this thought,

2:08:32right? Loads of people romanticized the summer of 2016. They like I don't know if either of you were on Twitter at the time. People romanticize it. They'd be

2:08:41like, "Oh, I love this time." Part of that reason is because a lot of people who are like near our age really became

2:08:48very very thrust into politics at that time because of the election of Donald Trump where everything and it was already pre-existing and it was already

2:08:56of course everything being politicized and people were suffering. It didn't magically start in 2016 but people long for this return to normaly and what they

2:09:04need to realize is keeping on thinking that this is going to happen that there is this like that the democrats will fix it and they'll make everything better.

2:09:12They kick the can down the road until someone like Trump gets in, who is objectively worse, don't get me wrong,

2:09:17but ultimately he just accelerates pre-existing policies. He taps into a world system that is already there to be ma to be bent to his will. The reaction

2:09:26to Hexith is, you know, at first I was like, I I thought about this video a while ago. Oh, I'm going to make a video about America has like a drunken racist

2:09:34in charge of its military. That's exactly what America should have in charge of its military. George Bush spoke of crusades in Iraq, you know?

2:09:42Yeah. Just because he's got some [ __ ]

2:09:44Christian tattoo and now they're showing the the Jerusalem cross on the guy's head and there's some soldiers going,

2:09:50"That should be the American flag." It's just, "Oh, shut up. This is always the way you were. Reckon with that and stop kicking the [ __ ] can down the road."

2:10:00, 10 minutesIn the UK, we have that now. Labour won our election and it is so bad here. We have not changed on Palestine. Sure, we

2:10:08got some sanctions on Bengavir and Smatri. Great. They've meant nothing.

2:10:14Why maintain a relationship with a government like Israel? Why? There is no explanation that it it is odious. It is

2:10:22destroying your base and it is evident of the fact that there is no meaningful cham challenge coming from leftwingers.

2:10:29And you know, I I didn't instantaneously want to dismiss Zoran. I I really care about his father's work. His father's work is really interesting. His father

2:10:38doesn't even believe in the concept of nation states, but in practicality, it is such a disappointment. This Bradlander, is it Bradlander that he's

2:10:45[ __ ] hanging around with that they're all hanging around with? Is outrageous.

2:10:49But I mean, Graeme Platner was outrageous. That was that was that was frankly a guy who said,

2:10:55"I went to Iraq to kill people and he did it." And then you got a tattoo.

2:11:01Tattoo to commemorate it. That's the Nazi tattoo. That was a line for a lot of people that it was a Nazi tattoo and not that he literally got that tattoo

2:11:09cuz he killed people.

2:11:13I'm curious like do you guys see that that that like promotion of the Platner now Brad Lander Zoron like camp

2:11:22area of the progressive like you know progressive Democrat party. Are you seeing that more? Is that like something you are thinking of covering more?

2:11:31because I'm seeing more like I don't know who was it with uh Emma Vigland posted a photo with Brad Lander maybe

2:11:39maybe a few days ago and they and Ryan Grim and a lot of these other like big-time liberal left influencers I mean

2:11:47Drop Sight's coverage has been some of the best on Palestine that [clears throat] you can follow but at the same time they'll go ahead and you know promote or whitewash someone like

2:11:55Graham Platner in their interview with him they sort of guided him out of the talking points that he I don't even think They challenged him on the whole um you know, Blackwater stuff. I mean,

2:12:05they brought it up and then they're like, "Okay, that makes sense. You had to, you know, you had to make a living or whatever after coming home, but they they uh they really are are kind of making an effort to push this, you know,

2:12:16progressive dem." And I'm curious if you guys are seeing a lot of that. And I mean, I'm I'm feeling like I like it's probably going to get pushed more. And

2:12:24I'm I I'm feeling a little more pressure to, you know, speak on it because not a lot of people are. But um yeah, I'm not sure what you guys are seeing in that front.

2:12:32I pretty much just view them as like Democrat like nothing that's going to actually substantially change. Anything that I would like to see changed. Um you

2:12:39know, like Chris said, I originally had high hopes for Zoron. Uh but that changed as soon as I saw he was reluctant. No, not even reluctant,

2:12:48unwilling to fire that like crazy Zionist lady in the police force.

2:12:53Yeah. So I was like, you know what? Uh I he duped me. I felt like my first big dupe was Bernie Sanders because uh

2:13:03obviously he's been incredibly disappointing with Gaza. And even when I I've covered him in like a recent video of mine about the Israeli left and like

2:13:11as soon as I posted that video, I immediately regretted it. I was like, I was way too [ __ ] nice to this guy, to this piece of [ __ ] I should have been

2:13:19far more aggressive and critical of him and not so charitable and give him the benefit of the doubt because at the end of the day, this is like a 90-year-old

2:13:27dude. He's had his whole [ __ ] life to be like, "Okay, this is a system of ethnosremacy and I'm trying to launder it by positioning myself as like a a sensible Zionist."

2:13:38You know, he called Chavez a dictator in 2015.

2:13:42I actually did not know that. But that is [ __ ]

2:13:43It's object it's objectively untrue as well. like categorically that is untrue.

2:13:48It's like democratically elected.

2:13:50Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Democratic. He won five elections. I saw someone cuz I was looking at like um obviously South America is not my specialtity. I mean I've watched um Pilra's documentary about like Venezuela in the 2000s.

2:14:00, 14 minutesReally good actually. But um like just listening to that it's like God these people are not necessarily disappointing. They just show you who

2:14:09they are and then very often fail to make meaningful change. When I was talking to Loner Box, I was like, I'm glad I didn't have to make the choice of

2:14:16Hillary or uh sorry, Camala or um or Trump, but I would have still the the personal choice I would have made was to

2:14:23spoil my ballot. I don't live in America. When I talk about Palestine as well, I don't tell Palestinians what political system they have to have. I

2:14:31say I personally advocate for a two a one-state solution because it is the only equitable solution, but I'm not going to determine every facet of

2:14:39Palestinians lives. But I am so glad that I don't live in America where it's like oh my choices like Trump is more

2:14:46fascistic than any amorphasic more racist. But ultimately things like sanctuary cities began under Barack Obama. Uh you know they were response to

2:14:55Obama trying to deport people. Obama engaged in huge amounts of deportations.

2:15:00, 15 minutesUm Carmela was saying we're going to have this strong border. You look at the erosion of trans rights. All of this stuff. They don't give a [ __ ] They'll

2:15:07do whatever they can to win and swing the base and then make no change. And then in four years time when, you know,

2:15:14someone slightly more Hitler-like comes to power, oh well, what could we do? You just got to vote for us at the next election. The UK will probably have its

2:15:22electoral system decimated at this election in the sense of it will not be Labor or the Conservative Party who have won every election for near enough 100

2:15:30years. It will probably be reform. And it doesn't surprise me because like this country is [ __ ] This country is so [ __ ] Everything is so expensive.

2:15:38There's like we have the we've got the leftwingers in power. They're they're going for meetings and telling everyone how we should be proud to be supportive

2:15:45of Israel. They're not doing anything to change our foreign policy. Nothing said about Venezuela. There are potentially,

2:15:51you know, uh eight people who might die on a hunger strike because this government has has abused anti-terror

2:15:58legislation to claim that attacking Israeli weapons factories is evil terrorism funded by [ __ ] Iran. And

2:16:06it's like I think at a certain point you have to realize they're paving the way.

2:16:10And when you sit there and you tell me but you've got to stop them getting into power. What stopped them for four four another four years and just four years after four years after four years where

2:16:19nothing gets better for people here but simultaneously as well things just get continue to be a totally unjust status quo where nothing changes on Palestine.

2:16:29It's like um Sudan. So a point that um was Lonerbox made to me was well Trump shut a a U 80% of soup kitchens in

2:16:36Sudan. It's like okay yeah that's terrible and that's not a good thing and that's not something I want to see happening. Simultaneously though you do

2:16:44know that like Biden was drawing himself closer to the United Arab Emirates like that that that that's objectively a thing that was happening. And it's like

2:16:51okay do you want it to accelerate in terms of the negativity in Sudan or do you just want it to be absolutely

2:16:58heinenous? And the, by the way, the RSF didn't carry out the massacre in Al Fascia because of Trump or anything.

2:17:04It's not like uh any of this shit's going on. Like even in my [ __ ]

2:17:07country, the owner of I mean, I don't know if you saw my video about this or you've read the article. You know,

2:17:11Manchester City's owner Noah is like the UAE's key node with the RSF in Sudan.

2:17:18Is that true? That's 100%. It's categorically true. He's the guy never heard that. He meets with any like

2:17:26dirty dictator that they have a relationship with. There are photographs of um Sheh Mansur bin Zed, the owner of

2:17:33Manchester City, who's only ever been to two games, by the way, in the whole time he's owned the football club. There are photos of him and um Hmedity, the

2:17:41Muhammad Hamand deallo, the leader of the RSF, just hanging out at a weapons fair together. It's [ __ ] crazy. And

2:17:49is football Twitter covering that? I I feel like I have never Well, so it came it came out in it

2:17:56started it's I it really like um I had a Tik Tok that really popped off about it and then all of a sudden I started noticing coverage on football

2:18:04Twitter and one of those reasons is actually if you look at football Twitter surprisingly pro Palestine because there's a lot of young Muslims and a lot

2:18:12of young like generally people from not the UK or who's who are like im immigrants who've I was going to say not from the UK they they're like from they

2:18:20are from the UK. Okay. Um, there's the colonial mindset coming out of me.

2:18:25That's that British white British ethnicity [laughter] slipping out. British supremacy, man.

2:18:31Yeah. Like, you know, English English people who are just like, "Holy shit." You know, like, "Oh, this is terrible.

2:18:37This is objectively terrible. And I care about Sudan." But then most white British people would be like, "I don't give a [ __ ] Like, Africans kill Africans." And as as as wonderful Asold,

2:18:49the thinker of our time said, "Sudan is a [ __ ] hole. You can see the bodies from space."

2:18:58I've not seen that clip, but I believe it. That's insanity.

2:19:01o, Noah, you have a a massive amount of experience when

Chapter 11: SlopTubers Using Palestine to Participate in Drama

2:19:08dealing with slop tubers. You and slop tubers are like natural enemies.

2:19:15Um, and that kind of leads me to what I guess what we wanted to talk about,

2:19:19which was uh using drama to cover Gaza as opposed to using Gaza as a weapon to

2:19:26participate in drama. That was something that you brought up to us. Uh, so if you had any thoughts on that, I'd love to like hear more, hear you elaborate.

2:19:36Yeah. Um well I guess all of us to some extent have done this thing where we've done the the former where we talk about

2:19:45um under the framing of talking about Asmin Gold, Ethan Klein, Mutahar, um any of these like super popular influencers.

2:19:53My favorite Yeah. All of our favorite influencers.

2:19:56Yeah, they're awesome. We you can cut that part, but we take those videos and then we [laughter]

2:20:02pull back out and look at the politics of what they're saying and the broader implications and just use it to inform people um talk about very serious

2:20:10ongoing issues and and show them things that they might not have seen otherwise given the you know massive restrictions and one-sided coverage of um you know,

2:20:19Israel's genocide in Gaza. And I think uh I think we've done a very good job at that for the most part. And I think I think there's a lot of other people that

2:20:27have like followed in suit and I think there's a lot of like on YouTube especially it's like there's um people

2:20:35have picked up on the the method and it's and it does work in a lot of ways.

2:20:38It's it's just adhering to like traditional YouTube uh not antics.

2:20:45What's the word? traditional YouTube approaches to get more views and then doing things that like I think are far more substantive than like drama videos

2:20:53about other creators. But then on the inverse there are I think I don't think there's that large of a cohort of

2:21:01like people or creators. But I do feel like sometimes audiences will be swept up in the drama a little bit and they

2:21:08will be more focused on um what this person said or what this person did that are unrelated to [snorts] the politics.

2:21:16And that's where I get a little um hesitant at times because I see, oh well, you know, a lot of people are are,

2:21:22you know, interpreting these videos in the way that I I had hoped they would,

2:21:27which is that they're now seeing something they weren't seeing before and maybe care more about it and hopefully go on to learn about it independently.

2:21:35But then a lot of people also are there for the drama. And those kind of seem to me to be inseparable things. I think I've brought this up to probably both of

2:21:44you guys before where I'm like I don't know where that line is between um where things stop being helpful in terms

2:21:51of like continuous coverage. Um I the accusation that we're using Palestine for drama is obviously bad faith. It's

2:22:00, 22 minutesmade by people that don't care that want Palestinians to die for the most part.

2:22:03These are Zionists that say this that you're weaponizing Palestine. Um, or they're the kind of parasocial creators that or parasocial fans of creators that

2:22:12like they they know the thing that will get to you most is if they question your um humanity and your ability to see

2:22:21people as human beings and say, you know, in a projecting kind of manner like you don't care about these people.

2:22:27You are using them to make money. And that is ultimately a projection because we're all creators. We all talk about whatever we talk about and we make money

2:22:35talking about it. Some of us just choose to support the people being genocided and others choose to support the genociders and that's a decision we

2:22:42make. But the um decision to like call into question someone's motivations and integrity things that are ultimately

2:22:49only inside of yourself uh usually it's quite telling of of how serious someone takes this stuff. Like they're not addressing the argument. They're saying

2:22:57you're doing this for a speculative reason that I'm inventing in my head because I don't like you or whatever.

2:23:02And so I'm curious, yeah, if you guys see how much of you guys how much you see of um both sides of that equation,

2:23:11like the use of drama to educate and then at the same time the sort of people being swept up in the drama and things

2:23:20diverging from the sort of intended goals. Do do you want me to take it, Chris?

2:23:27You go first. Yeah. I I think there is a line like you like you brought up like you said that there is a line where

2:23:34genuinely covering uh the issue can spill into weaponizing the issue. I don't think you have crossed it. I don't

2:23:41think any of us have crossed it. I think at the end of the day if you're creating content and your intentions are pure and the outcome the outcome that you yield

2:23:50is less Zionists [snorts] I think you're doing a good thing. So there a good example of someone who I I believe does

2:23:57the inverse weaponizes the the issue to make slop drama videos is that guy think

2:24:04before you sleep on YouTube. Chris's favorite channel. Chris loves him. He told me. Um Mhm.

2:24:10But there's a video where he's criticizing you and he's he's doing like the whole nine yards. Oh, this guy doesn't actually care about Palestine,

2:24:18blah blah blah. But the whole time like he's referring to it as the Israel Palestine meta or the Israel Palestine

2:24:27drama. And I'm like, bro. And the thing is when you or I or Chris or anyone else, uh, Bad Empanada, whoever it is,

2:24:35makes these genuine videos trying to enact political change, there's typically either explicitly or implicitly a call to action. The call is

2:24:44to stop being a Zionist. But when it comes to the people who use the videos to participate or sorry the the topic to

2:24:51participate in drama, there isn't such a call to action. Like there isn't really like a hey, stop being so much of a Zionist. Start supporting Palestinians.

2:25:00, 25 minutesStart doing X, Y, and Z. It's just someone criticized me, someone engaged in drama, I'm throwing my hat in the ring, but I'm not going to tell you to

2:25:08stop being a Zionist when this video is done. I'm not going to tell you to start caring about Palestinian suffering when this video is done. I'm not going to educate you on the settler colonial

2:25:16nature of the fundraiser.

2:25:18Yeah. So there is that difference when when you or Chris or whoever it may be creates a video about uh Palestine with

2:25:27the with the the goal to educate people and change their minds and you know again with that implicit or explicit call to action built into the video that

2:25:36at least to me presents as something that is a genuine piece of political content something with a goal with a

2:25:43purpose. But when Ethan Klein or whoever it may be complains for [ __ ] years at this point about how everyone is

2:25:50anti-Semitic and uh you know the Israelis are the most persecuted people on [ __ ] earth as he shrieks from his

2:25:57Bair mansion that is I would say crossing the line into using the issue to participate in drama and attack people who rightfully criticize him.

2:26:10After the end of this podcast, all three of us are going to have to read a collaborative uh legal statement, start talking about how we condemn

2:26:17anti-semitism, breaking into leftist [laughter] spaces. Yeah.

2:26:21But I think I think there's a lot to say about all of this. I think that there's a lot to say that um by the way, is your cat there, Norah? I can see it. Shadow.

2:26:31Wait, you can see the Yeah, I just let her in.

2:26:33Just the shadow. No, no, no. Don't worry at all. I don't I don't care. I like cats. Chris hates cats. Yeah, I know. I think they're brilliant. Don't don't don't uh don't worry. Sorry.

2:26:41I was going to show I was going to show her to you guys. Oh,

2:26:47a what does she think about Israel?

2:26:51I have through osmosis taught her uh to globalize the [laughter]

2:26:57she's down. She hasn't left yet and I'm always bitching about Israel. But I think I think for me I think one of the

2:27:03major things that I think about is that with a lot of this a lot of this there is a lot to say and a lot to think about a lot to feel about the things we have

2:27:13said and done and I think we both I think one of the times or the time I last spoke to you know we talked about this and kind of what I do online and

2:27:20how like I I think a lot more about Eurovvision now than I do anything else because Eurovvision is like a good opportunity to talk again and again

2:27:28about the same issue and to drill into people and it will appeal to a wider audience on uh on on um on Tik Tok. It

2:27:38just will objectively more people are going to see it. More people are going to be like through that tagline. But one thing you probably have to realize is if we're talking about drama is most people

2:27:46on Tik Tok will watch max like 16 20 seconds of your video. They will watch the 20 seconds about Israel doing something bad about Eurovvision. They

2:27:54will not go further than that. All of these platforms incentivize us to do these things. they incentivize to behave a certain way and and I think YouTube is

2:28:03saved by one thing which is the form of it. The form of Tik Tok is so incredibly problematic in the sense that it is uh

2:28:12the the 16-second window up to like a minute max at where you're going to be able to pump something out good that's going to be reaching out to people unless you make a real banger like a

2:28:21couple of my Sudan ones did quite well even though they were longer. But um the problem is is these platforms incentivize it and I think that there is

2:28:29something to be said about that and I think one day people will write uh like the longer this goes on people will start producing academic papers around politics of social media. I'm sure that

2:28:38people already have but it's like Twitter. Twitter's not a place for making like profound political statements and increasing the character

2:28:45limit won't change that. It is a place to hold people to account for going like this is a sort of a genre that's died

2:28:52but for a long time the going this you question mark was the greatest banger highest level political tweet that you

2:29:01would see out there of holding to account someone whose political view at one point was X thing and now it is X

2:29:08thing and and that's not meaningful that's not going to incite major change and I think that a lot of these platforms just incent incentivize it.

2:29:17And I think that ultimately you have to work within that space and maintain that knowledge of, you know, you you need to speak to many people. You need to be

2:29:26able to convince them of things and teach people important things about Palestine. And as I say, at least YouTube has the saving grace of most people aren't just going to watch 30

2:29:35seconds . They're going to watch 15, 20 minutes. And they may actually learn something really important in 15, 20 minutes. And so I think like ultimately

2:29:44when an opportunity presents itself to use something for actual meaningful and not just repeating the same thing over and over again for the sake of drama,

2:29:52you know, I'm not talking about like here producing Hassan Per is finished this time for the 400th time on some

2:29:59[ __ ] slop tube channel with millions of viewers. I am talking specifically about like, you know, I I I really think that I remember watching the as I say

2:30:07the favorite of your videos is How to Girl Boss a Genocide. Like I like the I really like the ones about the YouTubers who back to genocide. I think they're brilliant. I think what you do with them

2:30:15is a very smart thing of using it to talk predominantly about politics and you know this is what we've all discussed. But how to girl boss a genocide is such like an intersection of

2:30:24like important stuff to talk about about like you know this liberal Zionism [ __ ] using a

2:30:32topic that you know using like a drama topic. Like people love the term [ __ ]

2:30:36girl boss and people love finding out that Hila Klein is a piece of [ __ ] over and over again. Yeah.

2:30:45Yeah. That was like just like a little I mean I saw the Instagram story and I just cooked this up in like a few days.

2:30:51It was supposed to be just a little video. One of my more successful one in the last year. Um, and that was such a

2:30:58weird one cuz that was when I found that she was in the Duchafod battalion uh like in a period of time where there's a

2:31:06bunch of breaking the silence testimonies to them abusing detainees and abusing Palestinians in the West Bank in her battalion in her area of um,

2:31:16you know, where she would have been on her raid in Ramallah, which is a crazy thing to like find that that's just out

2:31:23there in public information, but um ultimately it it w like it was like a lot of um any video I've had that's been

2:31:31successful is like I'll see something on social media, screenshot it or capture it and then start there cuz everyone knows what a Hila client Instagram story

2:31:40is going to look like. It's going to be it's going to be big. It's going to be bad. It's going to be bad. It's going to be something crazy. It's it's gonna it's going to be her likes on a some just

2:31:48deranged Zionist Instagram reel and you're gonna be like, "Okay, let's see what else this person is saying." But then you actually, you know, it's a nice

2:31:57opportunity we have to sit there and dive in a little deeper and then present our findings to to the people watching and and yeah, that was like a very eye

2:32:05opening cuz it's very like oh it's like you you are directly complicit in this thing and you've lied about it and now we now that we know now that

2:32:13collectively the discourse and the audience is a little more aware of like I don't know Palestinian subjugation in the West Bank then that means a lot more

2:32:22than it would have hearing that on the H3 podcast 10 years ago where it's like,

2:32:26"Oh, cool. She was a soldier fighting terrorists. That's awesome." Now it's like, "Oh, no, she she was the terrorist the whole time." You know? [laughter]

2:32:36Yeah. I think I think that that's yeah I think I totally agree with you and just it's the funny thing about why post October the 7th is difficult for so many

2:32:44people because and I've mentioned this over and over again because it is not a moment at which people will accept this whole I just want peace and oh both

2:32:53sides need to stop the killing and the extremists people are just now like [ __ ]

2:32:57Israel genuinely [ __ ] Israel because they know what it actually is because they have at least a base grasp of settler colonialism they have at least a

2:33:04base grasp of you know the the structure of apartheid and racism that's there and sure perhaps they can't defend it as

2:33:12well as like someone who's you know learned about this who has the capacity to spend time learning about it but people know deep down and they know

2:33:19fully well exactly what Israel is and that that is morally wrong and unacceptable.

2:33:26Yeah, I see uh Tik Toks fairly often that are just someone saying, "I hate Israel." And they have like a million views. And that's a really cool feature

2:33:34of Tik Tok now that I think a lot of people are on the same page. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, 100% of just like any like anti-Israel content on Tik Tok,

2:33:45people are just like you see its performance versus pro-Israel stuff.

2:33:49Mhm. I don't see I don't see being pro-Israel anywhere as like something acceptable anymore. Um, which is good. I think people should be ashamed and embarrassed to be pro-Israel.

2:34:01All right. Well, that looks like that will be the end of this episode of No Politic here. And again, Noah, thank you

2:34:08so much for coming. Uh, Chris and I both really admire your work and and enjoy what you do a lot. So, thank you.

2:34:17Thank you for having me. This was super fun. Uh, I love what you guys are doing.

2:34:21I think it's you're bringing a lot of like information to people um in ways that very few people do on YouTube and

2:34:28in forms that very people few few people do on YouTube. You your videos are very well made and um yeah I'll be I will be

2:34:35back. I'm just telling you that now. I I'm inviting myself back. I'm holding that. So sorry.

2:34:42I think it's important to also say we bring a lot of joy to the youth. I think that's a really important thing to add.

2:34:48Exactly. the the no politics here. No politic here is is joyful. Um, but thank you so much, Noah.

2:34:56Is there anything you want to shout out,

2:34:58Noah. Uh, like your return on YouTube or I guess that's just something coming in the near future, right?

2:35:03Yeah, check out my channel, but it's dead right now, but you'll I'll post at some point and I'm sure I'm sure hopefully someone will see it. I don't

2:35:11know. We'll see. But, um, no. Um, thank you for having me and see you guys next time. See you on the flip side, man.

Fn. 67 — Noah Samsen Breaks Silence on Lawsuit